Just how fast is "fast"

Just so you know, all the prefab buildings I've seen around here have such crappy roof jobs, the warranty must be void when they leave the building. Most people get the roofs replaced within 7 years when they get tired of the leaks.

The pre-fab/factory built/modular component construction method(s), are nothing new.....Been going on as long as I can recall......We've participated in several forms or another, over the last 3 decades.

We, (USA), always look to over the pond for inovation, but typically foul it up, in attempts to improve/"cheapen-up", so-to-speak. i.e., concrete tile roofing, EIFS, for a couple of examples. And lest us not forget the progressive/socialistic movement now in play.... ;)

Efficiency shows!

If you want to know what the future holds, youi should look to places over seas that are booming and see what they are doing. Lots of prefab stuff, and things are all being done in the factory. Entire buildings (multi story ones at that) being assembled on site in a few days. It is coming.

I know I don't come anywhere close to the production numbers posted here. I think the only time we ever tried for a personal record was one roof years ago where I gun nailed 32 bundles (10 square) of T-locks in 45 minutes. Square side 5/12 with 2 plumbing vents. Had two helpers setting and the starter course was on and the bundles unwrapped and laid out before we timed ourselves. Have noticed over the years that due to being efficient in planning and executing the plan we were producing more with a smaller crew at a higher quality than a lot of the competition. Had one customer that watched us from his lawn chair do four homes on the street before doing his and he said we worked like a fine oiled machine. He said that it looked like I was conducting an orchestra with every worker not missing a beat. One of the best stated compliments I ever received.

O/S, I think the day will come that when you build a house you will be able to submit your plans for some kind of moulded engineered decorative prefab panels up to 12' wide and 50' long that will arrive by crane truck and be installed directly to the roof trusses eliminating the need for sheeting the roof. Everything could be designed to interlock with complete valley sections, vented ridge sections and complete dormers. The whole roof installed in a matter of hours.

Tim would like hearing you talk like that.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that crappy workmanship has always been in abundance, not just now. The speed varies from place to place and generation to generation.

As far as comp goes, asphalt prices and availability probably have more to say about its future than anything. I believe the quality standards and technical data are probably way better known and readily accessible now than before.

It would be possible Tom, but the nice walkers would have to be there. I guess in reroofing that would be a possibility because there are a lot of old homes out there.

Hey, why not coat some of these shingle roofs? If you can tear them off and reroof them, why not just spray on a coating with color. They do it all the time with burger King and Micky d's It can't be much worse than a lot of the things they are doing now. A lot cheaper too.

"Charging more & giving less"....absoluely! That's seems to be the name of the game, these days, when it comes to traditional services.

I can't help but feel some sort of guilt/frustration, as it may relate to passing on the inefficiences of the current workforce onto the consumer.

On another note; attoday's piece work wages, a young, energetic, industrious worker could realistically make six-figures, if they put their mind to it.

Dubya, It is not just the high nailing, but the nails penatrating the shingles so that they all blow off together that is the problem. the combination of that and the lack of detailing really worries me. We did a roof the other day and at the bottom of a valley, they had done EVERYTHING wrong. It was like they purposely put it together so that it would leak. They cut back the valley flashing short of the bottom, they had a joint in the shingles right at the point of the valley, 2 inches below the valley flashing, the drip was cut short etc etc. and there was a frigging hole at the bottom of the valley that the water ran into. They either don't know, don't want to know or they were high. I see it constantly too.

I am not kidding about something coming along and taking away a lot of the work that we are doing. IF the roofers keep screwing things up as bad as they are, some one somewhere will figure out a way to do it better and cheaper. I see it in concrete and with new building techniques and computers, and one of these days the chickens are going to come home to roost. We are charging more and giving less and that is a sure recipe for disaster. IMHO anyway.

egg: Maybe subconsciously I was, as mood enhancement is very important from time to time. ;)

OS: Yea, it's all good. I joined this forum to increase my knowledge; I want all the answers. Until we had a huge hail storm a few years back, we were known as the fastest TO crew around. Those stormers are quick at "shingle replacement" though. It's a GREAT feeling to hire guys who've worked w/ other roofers, only to have them quit by the end of the day because they didn't know roofers could move like that. From the point we show up on the job, until we leave, nobody stops moving except during breaks. That's the way it's got to be to pay the bills and impress the homeowners.

" but if there is not an improvement in quality, efficiency, and general roofing knowledge, something is going to come along and replace shingles and shingle roofing"

I agree, but I wouldn't mind if the jokers stayed around for the sake of my career! Many guys around here are throwing AG metal roofs on now, because of the lost faith in dimensional shingles. High nails make everybody look bad.

Jerry...I remember those days well....(BUR), (2) plies JM asbestos finishing felt in trowled mastic, on all metal, (22-24 ga.)...Some guys would intentionally stick the head of the nail onto the mastic-cocered hammer head face, then drive it home....Nails at 3" O.C...mastic all over everything...uhg, what a mess....If fact we had a specific flashing crew on a military housing project we wre doing...That's all they did, day in & day out...sdread mastic/nail metal/strip-in metal....

Hi OS The best i have ever done is 22 squares 3 tab 5/12 felt, edging, and shingles on roof in 10 hours . hand nailing ,new house,two half gables on front and vents on back. Talking about hand nailing reminded me about putting metal on a b.u.r. once ,I was nailing a joint and the caulk got on the face of my hammer. Driving a nail through double metal I tap a couple of times,the nail stuck to the hammer first tap .second tap I drove it in my finger. that will slow you down and make you watch what you're doing.

Ddubya, There is no doubt that shingle to shingle you can go faster with a nailer! Day to day or hour to hour or minute to minute or literally second to second though, most people that roof now do not roof very efficiently at all. I literally cut my teeth nailing by hand, and on a crew basis, we would kick the shit out of the roofers of today. I hope that your father was/is a good roofer and that he taught you the hows and whys of doing what good roofers do. My guys have seen me hand nail and also gun shingles down. they know "how " it is done, but they still don't know how to do it themselves. It is a long learning curve.

I hate to think of it, but if there is not an improvement in quality, efficiency, and general roofing knowledge, something is going to come along and replace shingles and shingle roofing. It is almost a joke now! that is my opinion anyway. I am about to old to do it anymore and so are a lot of the guys on this forum. Give it another 10 years and we will all be gone and if we don't train others to take over, there is going to be a world of hurt, especially if the economy comes back and there is a demand for high quality work.

Now that we have a dependable supply of electricity and lithium ion batteries, we only use candles for mood enhancement. Dub, were you looking to us for some mood enhancement? :)

I'm 29 and you don't hold a candle to me, personally. Sorry to break it to you fellas. :laugh: :laugh:

I gave up the bars a couple years ago and live for/because of coffee. This part is true.

I remember when I was in high school, my Dad offered $100 to anybody on our ~8 man crew who could beat him hand nailing, while they air nailed. He lost to the challenger, but he hadn't hand nailed much in years.