State Licensing Shot Down Again!

;)

I too had a similar revelation, in that, I'm quite possibly what one would consider a libratarian. I understand your view, I think....

However, it's ironic that alot of therse guys spewing the 'no gov't' wouldn't be in business or even have the opportunity, if there was lack of gov't! They're afraid of licensing, they'd have to clean-up a bit, as it tends to level the playing field.

The market place does indeed decide the winners & losers; Licensing or not....My possition, is that the current situations, (half-arse gov't/laws-but not enbforced), actually creates opportunity allows for the deadbeats, so-to-speak, to flourish. Either do it right or don't do it at all, & we know we're not going to eliminate gov't.

Should we just eliminate drivers licenses as well? What about medical licenses?

Thanks JSC for your rational opinion(s)...I complety agree w/you.

I'm speaking from first-hand experience working in states with & w/o state licensing...and yes, prior to experiencing working in states w/o licenesing, I didn't neccessarilly have a pro-licening opinion. I most-definitely do now. My opinion is open-minded and truly well-intended; For the good of consumers, as well as the trade & legitimate/ethic businesses....Absolutely not for personal gain....We have all the work we ever need, and always have.

BTW; We are flourishing in Colorado....We are blessed in that we are always in high demand and stay very busy,....don't turn down much work, but then again, most all our work is referral and we don't go looking out of our comfort zone.

I too disslike uneccessay gov't intervention, however, the "less gov't cliche'" spewing, has gone a-muck and is getting old.

These clowns are so funny they have made them selves exempt from any prosecution. he he he he ha ha make me gag. + exempted themselves from OBAMA care he he he he he ha ha up yours America. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Its nice to see a few of you that get it.

quote/]Roofguy Said:

TomB Said: What's the sayings? Ignorance is bliss? / Perception IS reality? Sometimes I get the feeling I'm talking to my five year-old that plugs her ears and wails....lahh-lahh-lahh-la-la, making certain she doesnt upset her own little perceived reality of a situation....

Well Tom, only one of us seems to be doing what youre saying above. And its not me. :)

My perceived reality really isnt part of the discussion, because licensing doesnt and wouldnt affect me one way or the other. Texas has no roofing licensure, and if it did it would be a snap for me to get it. I carry $1 million general liability and abide by all the rules and laws...roofing licensure wouldnt affect me, other than the distasteful act of handing over some more money each year for a brand new bureaucracy.

The issue is bigger than you and its bigger than me, which is what Im trying to get you to see. So it costs you a few jobs because people you see as less qualified take them from you. Frankly, if you cant outsell the fly-by-nights, maybe you should work on your marketing/sales approach rather than asking the government to step in. My experience has been that the customer who will do business with a fly-by-night roofer, isnt the kind of customer I want anyway. As my dad always said: The sooner you can get a roofer like that and a customer like that together, and out of your way, the better off youll be.

But again, its bigger than all that. Id hate to think that Id be willing to be party to leaving this country in worse condition, with a bigger and more oppressive nanny-state government, just because I wanted to make things a little easier for myself.

Your competition in Colorado is beating you in a tough economy, and you want the government to step in and help you. Trouble is, a lot of roofers have adapted and are doing just fine in this economy, so dont propose rules that affect everyone, just to suit your needs.

Youre proposing letting the camel get his nose under the tent...

Yup, right on roofguy. I proposed it was all about sales. Craftsmanship is a side or non issue. I suspect TomB is getting his underwear handed to him and doesn't want to adjust adapt. What's the story Norm??? It's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milk bone underwear. Cheers B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

There are too many frivolous and redundant laws on the books, with thousands more being passed every year. All the time we hear that it is the people who wanted the new laws, but it's remarkable that in most cases I never heard anyone say so. They are mostly passing them for power, control, and political gain and to appear that we actually need all the lawmakers.Oh, and also just because they can. Give a kid a crayon and what's he gonna do?

But TomB's somewhat right about licensing. Not completely, because I'm in California and I do know of instances where employees are be paid as subs. Licensing also hasn't stopped cash payrolls or massive numbers of illegal alien crews, or misclassifying employees for workers comp purposes, or the use of seconds, or short sheeting, or cheating on specs etc, etc, etc,.

What it has done is levelled the playing field to some degree by requiring a bond and wc insurance.

But I suspect that it's real purpose is tax collection, and since a license is also contingent upon compliance with all other govt impositions and they have made owning and operating a business a revocable privilege, not a right, it has ominous potential.

What's the sayings? "Ignorance is bliss"? / "Perseption IS reality"? Sometimes I get the feeling I'm talking to my five year-old that plugs her ears and wails....lahh-lahh-lahh-la-la, making certain she doesn't upset her own little perceived reality of a situation....

California should only be used when you need an example of a bad example.

I simply can not understand why anyone that pays attention to how government works can be for more government. Doesnt matter what the topic is, large government is a bad thing that requires more taxes from you and I.

You've lost me....shoulda known better.... ;)

California is also the most expensive place to live in the country. It is also the easiest state in the country to get public assistance. Pretty soon it all implodes.

Calif. contr lic works....The sub-game is non-existant....Consumers have recourse...call the lic board...contr resolves problem or ceases to be in biz....No credit, can't pass a simple biz management & trade specific test = no lic....no lic. = no permits issued at bldg depts....Sure there's crooks....but nothing like the widespead crap that goes on in non-lic states.

That's it....signing out...."you can lead a horse to water....."

Seems to me, the only reason states require a license for the non-utility trades (plumbers-electricians-hvac) is to force everyone into the insurance pool. In Texas, for years they have been trying to license roofers but it never gets out of committee. The promoter of this idea is the number #1 storm chaser/insurance gamer in the state. A few years back, the legislature actually required dry-wallers to get a state license. The only requirement to get a license is pay the fee and get insurance.

Anyone with a ladder and a hammer may roof a residential house in Texas. That doesn't mean they can roof- just means they don't have to get a state license. I like that idea.

Why don't we just say, if it's too hot in the kitchen....get out! (????) There....end of story....

I also agree that when it comes to licensing/regulating, the powers at be, so-to-speak, get all out of focus and start anylizing particulars...next thing you know...it's a complete mess....and everyone throws up their hands. Contractor licensing should be through a states' applicable consumer affairs dept....Nothing to do w/techincal applications & such....leave that for the local muniicipalities - bldg/safety depts.

With a good state licensing program, there's really nothing to fear for legitimate businesses....However, for those that like to circumvent laws to increase profits or gain an unfair advantage on their competition, it could result in elimination from the market place.

There are many proven positives with state licensing....However, I have yet to hear one, actaul, legitimate negative....only speculation....

Let me try to present an analogy as I view the situation....I used to race cars in a former life, so It's the best I can come up with.

I was in a race in Texas some years ago. Ended up a rain race....I typically do very well in the rain....This particualar course was run on a huge oval with added corners through the infield....It was raining very heavy and the officials were very liberal with the yellow flags. especially through the infield where they'd through a yellow at the slightest incident, so-to-speak....Now, you must understand, the rules dictate NO passing from a yellow flag - past "the incident".

The infield was a prime place, (possibly only), to pass & with yellows through there every time through, it was next to impossible to pass....My team mate, (kid, early 20's), went by me under a yellow, & continued to pick-off drivers on through the race, ending up on the podium I believe.

At the end of the race, in the impound area, several other drivers had noticed his antics and commnented amongst one another....No one officially complained/protested, as most would like to maintain the honorable atmosophere that's typically experienced, and surely he would be disqualified. A couple of drivers had discretely informed him of his unsportsmanlike conduct as well....We'll, you guessed it....We were all quite shocked when he accepted his finishing position/award.

I'm quite confident I would have finished much better, had my team mate not meddled things up....I'm absolutely confident I could've won had I blatently disregarded the yellow flags as he did....Instead, I swallowed hard and accepted my 6th place or so finish with a smile, as our mechanics & engineer gave a wink....

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels similar within the roofing profession