State Licensing Shot Down Again!

The problem I have with most arguments against authentic state contractor state licensing, is that, they,(the argumemts), are illogical, in that there is always going to be gov't....Now, more than ever!

The very fact-of-the-matter, is that alot of these businesses against state Licensing are succusseful primarilly due to the fact, the legitimate/ethical businesses choose to toe-the-line, so-to-speak....If in fact, all gov't regulation was magically lifted and it truly became a "survival of the fittest"....They would be OUT of biz in a New York second.

Cases in point are the recent out-spoken oponents here in Colo.....Last time it was the big home bldrs & attorneys; State licensing would ultimately mean they couldn't continue to exploit the ignorant workforce & consumer base....Lawyers would have less work as well....

This last go-around oposition was primarilly orchestrated though hail-chaser roofing operations & attorneys....Because? You guessed it....they're a , ('the'), signifigant roofing/construction dominance, as no homes are being built....and....they couln't continue to exploit....blah-blah....

Those are facts....not speculation.

JMHO/2-cents....

I've lived & worked in both, states that have licensing & states that have none....Licensing most definitely & undeniably improves/elevates the caliber of contractors, as well as protects consumers....Nothjings ever perfect, but licensing, (authentic-enforced licensing), works.

Twill You are playing devils advocate. I'm saying completely the opposite. Licensing protects no one. It becomes a huge draconian system with the image of protectiion. Reality, it is stomping all over individule rights and freedoms. If you don't live in a state with licensing be glad. Watch what you wish for. You just might get it and if you get it. Then you just might not know what to do with it. Cause it just might come back on you tem fold. eminem B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

TomB Your argument about law enforcement. NRA and Florida where citizens have the right to defend them selves. Thank God for this. Instead of the law requiring people to walk away from an arguement, people can stand their ground until someone looks like they might be threatening. You clear leather and open fire. What is the definition of "feeling threatened" To you TomB? Should apply to Contractors and most other professions. It would clear all the debris in a short period of time and put people in charge of their lives again. No more nanny state. Back like it was in the day when time wasn't like it is today and a mans word was all it took. Cheat or screw with someone, they will come looking for you. You won't be shitting on people for long. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Then again, some may feel the "PC", duck n' run, (avoid/hide), method isn't as efficient as simply picking up your gun and go shoot the damn wolf.....Possibly with a neighbor or two to help hunt him down.... ;)

Makes perfect sense....

Does Il. only require "prime" contractors to be licensed?....Wouldn't "subs" be required to be licensed as well, since they are "contracting" / independent busineses?

Herein is the problem....Laws are passed with good intentions, then left un-enforced....So, either round-file the whole mess or enforce them....Don't pass laws that will not be enforced.

Ciak....I get your drift. However, my argument is not for the sake a some sort of "validity"....That's what goes on in Colorado, as wywoody pointed out...all the different municipalities with their own, specific "contr. lic."; They're all a joke. it's mainly for consumer protection, which it turn, elevates the public's opinion, (for lack of better word(s)), of the roofing/contruction industry. Let me give a prime example; In 92', upon arriving in Denver, I opened the yellow pages and started calling roofers....Most all the large/page ads where disconnected.....vs., open the book in most any Calif. comunity and most all ads/companies are viable/legitimate businesses....State contr/ Lic/ # is required on all advertisement, etc....it doesn't take long, to realize, Colorado is swimming w/sharks....It was, also, at the time, one of the most litigated states in the U.S.....(just as many lawers as roofers...LOL)....It's just a nastier place to do business, as a consumer as well as a contractor, (legitimate contractor, that is....On the other hand, it's nirvahna for the more unscrupulous types)....

"Inspecting"/code enforcement is for the local bldg. depts....has nothing to do w/licensing.

One of the reason this continues to go round and round ad nausea in my opinion.... Persons( contractors) who have some experience with roofing sales , I believe sales is really what we are discussing here. Contractors usually positively impressed with the idea of Licensing fall prey to this notion .The licensing advocates will personally validate the idea and believe the license proponents are telling them truth about themselves ( this is called " Face Validity) Personal validation gives a powerful subjective impression of truth, but unfortunately, the impression can be created by methods that have nothing to do with objective validity. Correct me if I'm wrong. The license issue is all about more sales to the licensee whether or not the roof is applied correctly. That is why lawyers have such a lucrative business. Licensed contractors who install roofs that leak are only subject to the contracted (owner) if they pursue the case. Nothing to do with quality installs or for that matter and most importantly " Quality Craftsmanship " B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Shade-tree roofers affect us all....not necessarilly by directly taking work, but more damaging they are to the industry/craft in general....Licensing is consumer protection more than anything. Yes. along with that, come some perks to legitimate contractors, as it drasticcally reduces the "dummies" we all, (consumers, as well as businesses), must contend with, otherwise.

Some of us might think there's no need for the police officer. a common concepted "necessary evil" in our society....We'd all be much more respectfull, kind, courteous to our neighbor, if we all had guns strapped on our hips....Which is undeniably, most-definitely true....However, that will never happen either.

And yes, dawg....That's exatly what goes on ion non-licensened envioronments....As soon as a guy thinks he knows enough; Whallha! he's a contractor!.....It also breeds the seudo-sub phenomena, (miss-represting employees as independent sub-contractors), which, it turn, promotes the use of low-pad, illegal workforce.

We've hashed all this around & around over the years....Unfortunately, people are creatures of habit, ("sheeple"),....For instance; The president we have now....

I would say they could be your competition. If your price is respectable, then it's going to make those other guys seem way cheap. This is good for a few homeowners, but most should know what that means. I don't mind the price gap except for the HO automatically thinks your making bank off the job but really your just buying good material, doing it right, and paying your guys half way decent.

The only thing I like about licensing is it keeps dummies from running their own business. I'm all for entrepreneurship, but if you can't pass a roofing license test then you probably shouldn't be running a business. Without a licensing law I would think a lot of employees would end up starting their own business as soon as they think they are underpaid.

I for one decided yesterday that my prices are going up a few bucks a sq on 1 layer over plywood, and anything over plank is $15 a sq more right off jump street. I'm apart from most of the guys in my town, but I'm too close on occasion, especially if I'm off by a couple squares. I just looked at a mobile home the other day that was done 2 yrs ago by a fairly reputable licensed contractor in town....no starter!!! ridge ran the wrong way! Other things...probably!

If shade tree roofers are taking your work you are doing something wrong. The people that use those kind of roofers are not my customers.

If we could do away w/all licencing....yes, that would be great...However, that bwill never happen. So.....the next best thing would be to make it the same for everyone....As for licensing affecting overall quality of work. I can tell you from first-hand experience, States w/licensing exhibit far higher qualty workmanship than those w/o....far better....leaps & bounds apart....You don't have near the shade-tree mechanic types roaming the residential arena....

Florida is a lic state . It doesn't change anything much except charge a fee for lic and larger more intrusive buracracey. The more layers of government the worse it is. A license does not a quality craftsman make...... IMO B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

You shouldnt be for the state licensing. Small government is the answer to a better county not a larger one.

A govenment that can provide you with everything you need is a government that can take it all away.

We are all adults, we dont need the government to protect us.

Colorado has never had licensing....Every few years a few peiople get excited and think they're going to get a law passed, however it's always shot-down by big $/shysters....I've had a Calif. Lic. since 1983.