EPDM or Torch Down??

If you had to make a choice between EPDM and MB torch down.......which would you choose for ease of installation, cost and durability?

I have a small flat roof that ties into a shingled roof. The flat roof is 40 feet long x 25 up to shingles. 1/12.

Insurance paid for torch down but customer dont really want it because that is what failed on this roof before. I suggested Flintlastic but he dont want to pay the extra above what insurance paid. This is a rental/investment property.

Thanks for any advice!>>>

As good as many of them were/are, I wouldn't want a BUR on my own building today. We sold the tankers around 25 years ago and never looked back. The kettle is lucky to get used once a year. When I consider that our first Fibertite roof in 1981, and every single one since, is still on that building and aside from the careless hvac contractor and occassional cold weld, they've never had a problem. No re-stripped seams, no shrinkage, no bridged wall flashings, no splits, ............... honestly no problems at all, my first or second choice in a roof wouldn't be a BUR or EPDM unless it was given to me for free.>>>

One thing that I know for sure..... If I was recently appointed a top poobah by some organization who's major financial input came from a roofing system that involved a system made with cocao leave and KY jelly, then I better had never be caught publicly promoting anything but the cocoa/ky system. If I want to move up in that same organization...I most likely would have to devote my career to the well doings of cocaoKY.

As we all know, and have read in here lately..sometimes the ease of maintenance in the epdm re-roofing projects is best served when working in the loose laid systems....which I believe, when fully ballasted, are a fine system. When you start gluing .040 to moist recovery board using an army of unskilled laborers whose sole goal is to put down as much as possible in a day, then the drying times, application consistency issues, and applications of all the fixins, there should be no question about what caused these systems to fail....

If you adhere the best products to the best substrates using the best adhesives under ideal weather conditions, most likely you will have a long lasting roof. But go into the hurry-up offense of winter install when your work time is reduced to 10am to 2 pm....and temps go from 23 degrees to - 15, in an hour, and then go up to 110 in the summer, then your going to have a real mess. Cut corners on application products, mixed with inexperienced installation people and techniques, then your doomed to failure. If you operate on a "hope the roof outlasts the warranty" attitude, then I don't know how you can sleep at night, but if you use quality products, proven techniques, and experienced mechanics, then you can rest easy. To have a legacy of high production/ low service calls/ and superior results is a goal we should all strive for. To take a legacy for excellence in T&G roofing and hope to carry it into a new product/ service line without total dedication to the new line isn't to your best interest. We mostly all agree that T&G roofing is and was the best ever, but with the introduction of numerous alternative systems, and the follow up maintenance that ends up on our shoulders as an industry in general, we still have to understand, and deal with it.

So maybe the original question here should be...what would be your second choice as the better roofing system to install for speed, quality, and profit, if T&G roofing was not an option. >>>

Thanks for the reply, Mike. I had to read the original post two or three times to halfway get your meaning right, and was still left with those questions. :)>>>

Vaa......... I notice when you post and people disagree you start quoting others and trying to send people to www.look here to help my point.com I mentioned "new" to u because you quoted "seam splice". Any real roofing company probably will use atleast 50% less black glue. And in fact 100 % less black glue on seams. That lead me to believe you being a torchaholic had not used the TAPE. If you had you would not be saying you could flash a pipe or curb on a torch roof as fast as a rubber roof. Really dont c y ur gettin so upset and making negative remarks toward people. Gettin a little defensive i c. Maybe sit back and read other posts and u can learn a NEW thing or two.>>>

JSC,

As I used it, in it's context, I meant that most men simply don't have the total package of personal character, love and committment to build a business, maintain a marriage, raise a family, successfully holding it all together, and manage to pass it on to children that had the same exceptional characteristics that enabled him to pull it all off.

But it could be applied to anyone, anywhere. Not just a business owner/founder.>>>

Vaa,

Goodyear played with that almost 20 years ago. It never took off here, and I can't speak to it's ultimate effectiveness. It is worth note that it's not actually the EPDM that's being welded. As a thermoset membrane, epdm is not weldable. It's only due to the addition of the thermoplastic product strip during the curing stage of the epdm that makes this possible. At least that's my limited understanding of these products.>>>

Mac,

Crawling back under a rock after a decent dialog was starting ain't the answer.

If you could come to grips with the fact that you've kind of earned your reputation with a few of these guys, and worked to change it, everyone could benefit.

Don't interpret that mean that I don't think others are equally, or at least nearly as much so, at fault.>>>

JSC,

Sure.

Well, it's harder than I thought, cuz I've erased 3 attempts. At first I started to write: Most men are happy with a job.

But then I substituted the word "happy", with content...... and.................... the problem is that most men simply aren't happy or content. They aren't happy with their job, their not happy with their wife, their not happy with their dad, their not happy with their kids, or their not happy with their own business. They are so busy trying to live up to something unknown, that they hate themselves for failing to reach that pinacle of some personal measure that even they are at a loss to define.

The word "legacy" has nothing to do with the status of one's business, job or lot in life. I has to do with being happy, content, satisfied,.............. teaching your children values that make a man a man, loving your wife like the treasure she is (ok, so not all of them are, neither are we). Unfortunately, most men are trapped in some world of gross discontent. They have made a shambles of their lives, and many of the lives around them, whether it's resulted in a broken family or not, it has resulted in a life of misery, self-doubt, disturbed children and a final question mark in the old age that begs the questions: Who am I? What have I accomplished? Have I made a difference? What should I have done different? etc....

A legacy is when those that knew you gathered around your casket and felt nothing but remorse for the man they have lost, and gratitude for the love he has given and example that he was.

At least that's what it would mean to me.

But given the context of how it was used, I can understand the question.>>>

"The real truth is that most men don't have what it takes to create a legacy."

Could you expand on this Mike? And, your definition of a legacy?>>>

Is the angst in the idea that we are not what we have imagined ourselves, I'm hearing it from both sides and really if we had what we really wanted most of us would not be roofing at all, Because we don't I'm getting ready to watch a movie check back>>>

well guys, been real and it's been fun, just not real fun!

I am out, going back under my rock.

Good luck all.>>>

my point specifically towards "small ops" was based on a point made to me regarding big box store style company, and then alluding to the fact that I am qauntity, not qaulity, I pointed out that you can be both, and that there is a percentage of small ops, that are small because they lack the drive, ability, emotional quotient, attitude, to grow, not because they do not want to, but because they cant, so, they then justify their position, as opposed to improve their position. And you will ussualy hear, that they do not want to be big because big co's are all about the qauntity not qaulity.

I admit, I probably should have made that clearer, I respect anyone, regardless of size, by what is in their hearts, and how they live their life, pure and simple

And btw, Their are 5 roofing co's in my family, I would say that none of them are considered very big. But they are known. >>>

Vaa I am not "claiming" it as you say. It is a family business, 6 family members work there, so wdnt u say that the succes's or failures wd be shared by all? Mike's company HRI roofing has been around since 1947. was Mike roofing in 1947? Most likely not, yet his company and it's success', and experiences measured or not, are still valid when he makes his points on things aren't they?

And wywoody, you have no idea my "insights" or "true feelings" towards the small operation, Iwas responding to those "small operations" that fit my claim, as were you and others (big box lowes type roofing co) were making about me.>>>

Mac,

You're welcome. I'm an equal opportunity offender/defender.

wywoody, I could have elaborated. The silver spoon sits a little close to me, but I don't agree with the way Mac belittles small operators. We all have our place, our desires, our goals. None are right or wrong, imho. What matters is that we are satisfied. Few of the people that chase big dreams ever find satisfaction, because they are looking in the wrong place.

I enjoyed your comments. I can relate, and I'm glad for your son. I didn't want mine to roof either. My dad didn't want me to do it. But school is not for all of us. I was one of those super students that skated through school with a 3.5 gpa without ever opening a book. Got accepted to a very difficult school to attend, The Citadel................. and the long story short is my failure to establish good study habits hurt me. I came home to roof. I often wish I had finished my degree, but on the other hand, I know that my oldest son would not exist if I had. Therefore, my first grandson would not exist either. It all works out for those with faith, in the end. I am satisfied. I am happy. And whether there is a Hicks Industrial Roofing in operation 20 years from now, or not, will have no bearing on the condition of my soul.

The fact is, that I tip my hat to any man that started with nothing and earned his way through life..... be it with 100 employees or 1. My dad says "I couldn't do what you do". I'm not sure I could do what my grandpa did. Maybe I would have. I do think we have succeeders and failers in this world, but I don't think the thickness of our wallets has anything to do with those descriptions.>>>

Mike, I scincerely appreciate all you wrote, although, it may not have been your main reason for writing it, I take it as your taking up my defense to some degree, and I am grateful.

Those of us whom are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation anything are always saddled with yolk of the perceived "silver spoon" I am here to say, I had anything but, I had to be the first to arrive and the last to leave, "THat is your name on that truck" my father use to tell me. Trust me when I say, my path was not the easy one, but with that being said, There was the groundwork laid out for me, and for that (and many other things) I am extremely gratefull, but as You elluded to mike, It is not what you have that matters, but rather what you do with it, this world is chock full of wasted potential.

On a side note, I must take umbridge with the "degree of sarcasm and aggression" I thought I've held my tounge rather well! I have taken a fairly healthy barrage of shots fired over my bow (Jed, sometimes vaa, et al) before I returned fire! But maybe I still have work to do on that front, Like most I am a work in progress>>>