Duration Sure-Nail Strip (cellophane)

I have read about some condensation & capillary problems w/ the old sure-nail strip. It is my belief that the cellophane strip is the problem and the fact that they re-engineered it, confirms my thought. I have preferred warranties on all of my installs and am concerned if they (O/C) will honor warranty. Granted the nails are failing, but it is the shingle engineering and not the nail causing the introduction of moisture. If the shingle was not conducive to making condensation and/or trapping it, the nails would be fine. I have always exclusively used and trusted O/C but am very concerned after reading some previous blogs.

O/C has fixed the problem w/ their latest Sure-Nail design, but, they should still be responsible for the poor engineering of their old style design. I believe this is going to continue to be a huge problem, particularly in high humidity areas like FL. Crap economy and now this!

Now that you've mentioned it...Yeah....same experiencse with pencils and the stick matches! I too, just thought I was getting old.....I thought I was delusional, thinking I use to frame several houses with the same pencil.

As a matter of fact; I can't ever recall having to actually buy a pencil in years past. The lumber delivery guys always left a few with every delivery.

OS

"Has anyone tried to sharpen a carpenters pencil lately? They are all msde over there too, and the lead keeps breaking off and sliding out before you can get a sharp point. For those of you that don't mark lines or strike them this is no big deal, but for those of us that have to build and frame and measure, it is a large PITA."

and here I was secretly afraid I was just getting clumsier with age.

Twill, I almost mentioned that article myself.

The whole thing is suspicious.

Like someone saying, "Well, the problem is expansion and contraction." (The "expansion" is over-reaching our abilities and the "contraction" is 'don't.')

Here they go saying, "... they can also trap water under certain circumstances."

So what, then. Get real. Tell me. What circumstances? Like, for instance, when the funky transition occurs right at or just below where you are supposed to put all the nails? Shingles can turn. That's one of the things they are very very good at. Going from one foot transitions to two foot transitions isn't going to make any difference.

I don't buy it.

I'd love to be there to watch them hand-sealing all the divot holes after they pull those things apart. lol (That's what they need the gooey sheet for.)

I still can't get over Grace I&W application recomendations of I&W around protrusions and on ridges...WTH?...Utter incompetence!

But it's on a nice/"professional" brochure...So it must be right :blink: ;)

So they've turned to ice & water rather than fixing the original issue. Sounds like our competition!

Sending the water down the roof underneath the shingles has got to set off some red flags! Although I'm sure it will dump on top of a lower row of shingles, thats still bunk.

Not attacking anyone john. Just rantin, you know how I go! Lol

I think my point got missed completely so ill try to make it again with less words.... I think the entire market went to heck years ago and I find it almost funny that educated, experienced old school roofers wanna debate over which new compromise is causing the new problems when I used to tear off 40+ year old asphalt shingles that were in better condition than todays shingles after only ten years. I have a family member that has a 3:12 pitch trailer home with origional 3 tab shingles that are over 40yrs old and still look good and still aren't even curled at all. Even the owner of sherriff goslin roofing ( one of americas oldest roofing companies) has tracked and documented the intentional decrease in shingle quality over the years and even writes articles about it. This is no secret guys. I'm just going by what I've seen in my short life. Most of you have been shingling for longer than I've been alive. Why is this still not clear? In the bahamas and even south florida when someone buys a fiberglass roof they know its a ten year roof, no matter what shingle. Today a shingle is a shingle. Shingles were at their best several decades ago.today, Its the cheapest, most temporary roof money can buy. And by todays "green" standards, the most irresponsible roof of all. There's a place for them but let's stop talking about them like they're something they're not. Please!

Ive seen it too! In the North East,on the Coast and Inland.... H2O trapped above the Continous tar strip! I have also used Heritage Series TAMKO in the years past, we have gone back on jobs where the seal strip has never stuck and wind driven rain leaked at a shingle joint!Rusting nails in both cases and creating leaks and aggravation for the customer and myself. I feel as if i am working to hard for the Manufacturer in every aspect, selling product, system, warranty, price increase, etc. And then for the system to fail! Well thats just Great! What they just say ? Another price increase in FEB and March... 10 to 12% per..... And how bought them Pencils?

DdubyaC Said: Twill: Dont ya hate 3/12s They are the freakin half breed nobody wants. My customers always want dimensional shingles and I hate installing them on that low of a pitch. Also, those jobs are more attractive to the noobies.

Im just wondering what other guys do for a 3/12. Did you bid it for double felt app?

After talking to each shingle manufacturer, and even though it's approved like weaving a valley and not on the wrapper, I've been Dutch-Lapping them for 15 years or so. I've also been keeping track of them. Nary a leak, down to 2/12. 5-1/2" dimensionals get lowered to 5" exposure.

Twill: Don't ya hate 3/12's They are the freakin half breed nobody wants. My customer's always want dimensional shingles and I hate installing them on that low of a pitch. Also, those jobs are more attractive to the noobies.

I'm just wondering what other guys do for a 3/12. Did you bid it for double felt app?

Well, I'll be switched! "I won't use SS becasue they're too hard and brittle."

I wouldn't ask you to not be frank, but that's quite a bit of hauteur there. I wouldn't walk on mere rose petals either. lol. We're not using them for firing pins, we're nailing shingles on with them. And trust me, they work just fine.

:woohoo:

(Tom, there's just no telling what GAF will do next. Their sales rep around here has to just keep smiling. Smiling and smiling and smiling. There's nothing he can do about any little ole thing. Not allowed to answer any questions. Not allowed to move a muscle. Elk is dead.)

I notives that about the pencils too. I often just use pens and throw them away after awhile. If the surface showa the marks good, I'll use a scratch-awl.

I buy the EG 1" for felting. That's what they're made for. HDD and copper are made for roofing. I won't use SS becasue they're too hard and brittle. Dennis from Roofer's Review posted a pic some time back of a 1700's copper roof nail holding a stone roof on. The nail had turned green and the stone above it had rubbed hte head off. Otherwise, it was good for anohter 100+ years.

I will not allow myself to even think of using zinc-chromate on anything. To defend against the kind of problem mentioned here I have also increased my set-back and stopped doing any recovers. I haven't installed any shingles with a continuous seal strip. I may be wrong, but I don't think the OC shingles I have seen around here have a continuous strip (any longer?)

I am also not buying some recent nonsense about eliminating granules in the nail zones so the bundles will palletize without distortion. It was never a problem before. If we're shooting air-nails through a cold, humped shingle, we need to stop doing that.

Tinner,I think you are one of the very few that uses HD nails. We use EG's and haven't had any problems on 4/12 or greater slopes. I have noticed the decreased quality of EG nails like others have mentioned. And yes, the cellophane nail strip would hold water.