Composite Roofing Builds Million-dollar Businesses - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Mike Heiland of Heiland Roofing and Exteriors, Andrew Prchal of Gunner Roofing, and Mark Pagel of DaVinci Roofscapes. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Hello and welcome to this month's RLW Read Listen Watch from Roofers Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I'm so thrilled to have you all here today to talk about really opportunity. This is what it's all about, the opportunity within your roofing business to really do something spectacular. And so we have invited our friends from DaVinci Roofscapes to come and visit with us, along with some very leading contractors to talk about how to bring composite roofing into your business, creating that million dollar or multi-million dollar roofing business out there. So before we get started, a few housekeeping. We are being recorded. This is being recorded and it will be available on demand in the next 24 to 48 hours. Also, the chat is open. As you all know, we love your comments and we want to hear what you have to say. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So questions, comments, you name it, please let us know who you are, where you're from, name of your company. Just go ahead and let us know all that right in the chat. We also have our Q&A open and we will be taking questions throughout the entire webinar. So let's get started with this month's RLW. I want to introduce our distinguished panel. I am very excited about our guests today, really sharing great information about how to use composite roofing to make your homeowners and building owners so happy with their roofs. And so I'm very excited to invite Mike Heiland, the founder and CEO of Heiland Roofing to the show. Hello, Mike. 

Mike Heiland: Hi, Heidi. How are you? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I am very good. Thank you so much for joining us. I would love it if you would introduce yourself and tell us about your business. 

Mike Heiland: Sure, thank you. Yeah, actually I started this company, founded it in 1987 while I was attending Wichita State University. Really didn't have any intention on staying in the roofing industry. And believe it or not, in 1992, graduated in '91, we had one of the largest hail storms in the history of Wichita and just couldn't pass it up and just got in the middle of that and the rest is history. 38 years later, I'm still out here doing it. We've just gone through a lot throughout the years, good times and bad. 

Mike Heiland: We were fortunate enough a little later in time, around 1999 to 2000 to get in with John Humphreys and Tim Gentry with DaVinci and got a chance to get in with them and get started on the synthetic side of roofing. But back in the days when we first started, it's hard to believe that there's really about four options, T-locks, three tabs, laminates and shakes. And so the industry's come a long ways and  I think that's what we're going to talk about today is all these other options that have come out that are stronger, better and  give people more to look at when they're doing the roof. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You know what, Mike, I was starting right about the same time you were in roofing and  I remember all of those. And so today's offerings, the beauty, the aesthetics, the performance is pretty amazing. So thank you so much for being here today. I'm really excited to hear more about your story. 

Mike Heiland: Absolutely. Thank you. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. And then I would love to introduce Andrew Prchal, who is with Gunner Roofing. Andrew, thank you so much for being here today. Can you introduce yourself and tell us about your company? 

Andrew Prchal: Absolutely. So I'm Andrew Prchal. Heidi, thank you for the introduction with everything. Really happy to be here. But my brother and I founded Gunner about seven years ago, 2018. It's funny, because it always seems like, "Oh hey, that was yesterday," but it's been seven years. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. 

Andrew Prchal: I'm sure Mike, you felt the same way, right? You said it's been over 30, so ... 

Mike Heiland: Time flies. 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah, it really does. But my brother and I started the company. We just really wanted to put a really awesome customer experience out there for customers. We wanted to make sure that we do what we say we're going to do. We show up on time, which it's kind of crazy to think about, but in the construction industry, you get a wide variety of experiences. And so we hear it all the time from customers, so we said, "All right, let's just take that customer service, put that at the forefront of what we do." And that's really why we started. 

Andrew Prchal: I actually lived in Arizona with my brother before and  a friend of ours had a solar company over in New Jersey, told us I can't find anybody to install a roof. We said, "Perfect. We're your people, we can do it." My brother was dating his now wife who lived in Connecticut and  it just seemed like the right fit. So we moved over to the East Coast from Arizona, packed up, drove over in a U-Haul and started Gunner. It was crazy. I mean, Arizona, we never see snow, so of course, the time that we start driving, it's snow until we hit the East coast. 

Andrew Prchal: So definitely got a taste of what was kind of in store for us. But yeah, we love it. It's been a lot of fun. We actually, we started originally just doing roofing and funny enough, someone actually, one of our customers actually approached us and said, "Hey, I want to do a synthetic material." I was like, "What do you mean?" And it was a DaVinci roof. And that was really how it kind of started everything. We realized, "Hey, there are a lot of great options for people to choose from, but there's a durable option. There's something that looks really nice." And so that was our first synthetic roof. It was 2019. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You give me so much hope for this industry, knowing seven years into it and  you are doing so many cool projects and such a great business with your brother. That's what the industry talks about all the time. How are we getting this next generation here? 

Andrew Prchal: Well, thank you. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. Thank you for being here today. I am really excited about this. 

Andrew Prchal: Absolutely. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And last but definitely not least, I want to introduce Mark Pagel, who is the general manager of the DaVinci Roofscapes. So Mark, thank you for being here today. Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you and the company? 

Mark Pagel: Sure. Thank you. And just a quick note, first time I met Andrew, this young gentleman from Connecticut, he was wearing a cowboy hat, so I was a little confused at that moment, but it was a great look on him then. And I'm sure that all his customers in Connecticut really appreciate the cowboy hat too. 

Andrew Prchal: The office loves it too. They know it's going to be a day when I show up with the cowboy hat. 

Mark Pagel: Outstanding. Yeah, a little bit about me. I've been with DaVinci Roofscapes since 2020. I actually came to DaVinci as part of the Westlake group. It's been with Westlake Corporation for about 15 years now. I've been in the building products business for over 30. I've gotten to do a number of different things, including I did at one point have my own construction company as well. Wasn't aware of a company like DaVinci at the time, so maybe I'd still be in business myself if I had. But no, we've done a lot of great things with DaVinci and with great customers like Mike and Andrew and  we're just looking for ways to be better partners and with customers like them. And I think we have a lot to offer. We put a good product, the best product that we feel is out there in the category into the market. We're just looking for ways to enhance that product line and increase our capacity so that we can just make more and get more product out into their hands so they can make more money being contractors and doing the excellent work that they do. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That's great. Mark, we are so thankful to have you here today and what a great company to be able to lead. You guys just bring so much to the industry, so thank you so much. And I've seen some chats coming in here. Thank you everyone letting us know where you're from. The chat is open. So continue to let us know where you're at, where you're from, the name of your company and  then as we go through, feel free to make comments or ask questions and  we'll be taking those as we go through the whole RLW. So let's get started. And it's really fun to start here with Andrew of just talking about starting your business, finding the products that you want, knowing what you want to do. Can you talk a little bit about establishing and growing with composite products, what that's meant to your business? 

Andrew Prchal: Absolutely. So starting with composite products was really, I mean, it seemed pretty foreign to us. It was like, "All right, what is this? How are we going to do it?" But DaVinci does a really, really good job making sure that you have the resources to succeed with it. The biggest thing was right on here it says learning curve, having a learning curve and understanding how to install it, how there's different techniques to make sure that you are installing it correctly and why installing it correctly is so important. It's like any other product. It's meant to be installed a certain way so it can perform and last for a very, very long time. For a lot of our customers, this is the last roof they plan on putting on their home. And so really understanding that and making sure that we're doing that was the most important thing. 

Andrew Prchal: We like to walk before we run, so making sure that we had DaVinci's support, that was awesome. That was a huge part of it. And then before we actually installed our first roof, really diving through just training, not only with our company but our crews and making sure that they understood everything that goes to it. So I would say that was one of the biggest things. And then it's, "All right, how do we take that from, we just want to make sure that we're installing it correctly to how do we become more efficient?" And more efficient, making sure that we're more efficient is obviously important because it hits the bottom line. 

Andrew Prchal: As much as we love to do this, we are doing this to make money and to provide for not only ourselves, the people that work with us and the people that work on the roofs. So becoming more efficient ultimately helps that. It also allows us to do things with ... For us, we do a lot of marketing and DaVinci helps us with that. So making sure that we're able to do that and provide more information to customers and really just educating them on what is out there. I mean, Mike, you said it best before. 

Andrew Prchal: Back then there was only four options and it really shows how much it has grown as far as the offerings are available. And I mean DaVinci shows that in their line. It was tough to get started because it just seems daunting. You are like, "All right, I want to make sure that I'm installing it." But then you realize and you get into it and you're like, "This was super easy. I should have done this a long time ago." So I mean, we definitely love doing it. We love the look of it and  our customers do too. They look at the lack of maintenance that comes with it. And I mean, it's really amazing to see. So we love it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: When you're talking about educating the customers, I mean, to me that seems that that would be so important for that partnership with your manufacturer to really be able to, that the homeowners or building owners have this confidence in the manufacturer of the products and really understand how the products work because it's still, how many roofs do you buy in your lifetime? Not that many. So you need to have someone, a contractor who you can really trust. How do you really work with educating your customers? 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah, I mean, I think a big thing that we'd like to do is just educate them on how things should be installed and what to look for. We always tell our customers that even if you don't go with us, we want this to be the last roof that you do. Educating people in that aspect is important because, one, from a DaVinci standpoint, they want to make sure that the roof goes up correctly because it's going to last. For us, we want to do the same because we don't want to have to go back out there to fix a leak or anything like that. I always say this, but as much as I love our customers, we don't want to get that call in the middle of the night saying, "Hey, my roof is leaking." 

Andrew Prchal: So really just educating them on how to install, what to look for. And then for us, we get snow. So educating them on the benefits of snow guards, that goes with a synthetic roof. So we've had a lot of people that are like, "Oh, snow guards, that's never been brought up." So just educating them about the products, how to make sure that they are getting the most out of their project. So the roof is the last one they have to put up. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Mark Pagel: We try to start that learning process early with our customers and rew and Mike, they can probably teach a lot of these courses, but we have a full group of technical people that are actually across the country that will be out on job sites, working with the contractors to help them really become very familiar with the product and the proper way to install it so we can build these best practices so that they can then message them to the homeowner to increase their confidence in the products that they're buying and the people that they're buying them from. And the more we can help make our customers the experts, which Mike and Andrew definitely are, I think it creates a real good team atmosphere that helps present the product in an extremely positive manner for everybody. 

Andrew Prchal: Absolutely. And that's our experience with DaVinci is anytime, even just a simple question, I mean, I call my rep over there and it's like they answer the phone. It's nice to know that if you do have a question or you do need something, then that support's there. So when I talked about it being daunting before, it's like I should have done it before because it was just so easy. It's just making sure that you are ready, that you understand just what to do and they make it easy. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And you've been doing it for five years? 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah, our first roof was, it was actually at the end of 2019 with DaVinci, but yeah, been about five years. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And we're going to have Mike tell his story here in just a minute about how long he's been doing DaVinci roofs from the very beginning. But Andrew, as you're kind of looking at the growth of your company and  obviously, we just talked about how important it is to educate your customers and everything, but you started talking about this a lot about quality and performance, your reputation as a premier contractor installing a premier product. Talk to us a little bit about how you've grown your company with DaVinci products and also just composites overall by being different, diversifying your business. 

Andrew Prchal: Absolutely. So biggest thing that we did was we offered it to every single customer or  at least talked about it. That just opens up the door. It just makes it so that our customers understand what's there. We talk about knowledge and educating the customer beforehand. We do this every single day. Mike and I and Mark, we do this every day, so we know what we can offer, but customers might not. They can only do so much research. So just educating on them on what's there. But we talk about quality with the DaVinci product. I mean, seeing some of the roofs that are over by on the East Coast, I mean, they're deteriorating. Even if it's natural slate, you can see cracks, chips, real cedar. I mean, real cedar gets 20 to 25 years by us. So you talk about that with a customer and  I mean, I know for me this time is a big, big factor in everything that I do. 

Andrew Prchal: And so for our customers, it's the exact same thing. They don't want to have to deal with having to do a roof three, four, five times in their lifetime. So bringing up DaVinci and talking about, "Hey, this is a product that is going to last. They test it. They do everything to make sure that this is the last roof that you have to put on." People are like, "This is a no-brainer. Why didn't I do this before?" So just talking about that and  then just as far as maintenance goes, once it's up there, you're like, "Okay, hands off. Here we go. We're good." That's a big factor with everything. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well and  the elements, I mean, where you're at on the East Coast, like you said, you get snow, you get high winds. I'm sure there's some hail and wind-driven rain part of all of that, I mean, for homeowners, they want that durability and they really want that understanding of that this product is going to last. How much do you see your homeowners or building owners doing their research and really researching not only your company, but the products? 

Andrew Prchal: A hundred percent. I mean, they're always doing research. I mean, sometimes one of those things where you have to kind of dial it back in because there's so much out there and so much misinformation that can be out there that you just have to say, "Hey, let's look at what is actually recommended," let's just say from DaVinci and really just dive into them and hold customer's hands. So we're seeing a lot of research done beforehand, but it's one of those things where it's either a lot of research done or a little research done. So there's not really an in-between. We experience that all the time with our customers. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You know, Mark, DaVinci has such a beautiful website and such amazing marketing. I've been watching you guys for a very long time and  I know we're seeing more and more homeowners and building owners, consumers basically doing their research ahead of time to really understand, as they're talking to the contractor, to be able to understand those products. What are you seeing on that? 

Mark Pagel: Yeah, so we've been a part of some of the most beautiful projects across the country, East Coast, West Coast, everywhere. And really you talked about some of the photography and different things on our website. We've really created an aspirational value behind our product because you see them on what can be some of the most expensive homes, the most beautiful homes, the best design homes. And really what we take then is the messaging behind the qualities of the product, the fact that it's going to hold up from a wind. You talked about the wind rating, impact rating, fire, it's protected against fire. So we meet and check all the boxes of what homeowners are looking for from a performance standpoint. Couple that with what Andrew was just talking about from a maintenance free standpoint and  then you see those projects put forth on some of the most beautiful homes in the country. 

Mark Pagel: And hopefully, we help Mike and Andrew sell the projects when they're able to talk about what every homeowner can do with their own with a DaVinci product. And both of these two gentlemen are fantastic representatives. They both won projects of the year with us in the past on spectacular homes as well. So really to be able to convey that message of what the qualities of the product are, how it's going to hold up to in contrast to other products that are on the market and  then really to show what your capabilities are, what you can do with that product once it's put in on a home is quite impressive. And then when contractors like Mike and Andrew start talking about what their company is doing to support that and the techniques that they're using to install it creates a package that, quite frankly, is hard to say no to, at least I'd like to think so. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well and  you know what, Mike, I love your story and I love the fact that, in fact, you and I, before this started, we were talking about, I was actually in the market working along the same time you started and  we talk about this a lot at the Coffee Shops, about the importance of the manufacturer partnership with the contractor and what that really means. So I would love for you to kind of talk about that, how important that partnership has been that you developed 30 years ago and what it's done to turn your business into that multi-million dollar business. 

Mike Heiland: You know, Heidi, it's hard to believe how fast time goes, but back in '99 I believe is when DaVinci kind of got everything rolling. And just within that timeframe, I'd say late 1999 to early 2000s, I became knowledgeable about the product and reached out through a distributor and somewhat began a friendship with John Humphreys and Tim Gentry just asking them questions and trying to check into what they were developing. I knew this thing from over the years, especially through the '80s and the '90s, we installed thousands and thousands of squares of shaped shingles, which was a very popular product in the Midwest. 

Mike Heiland: And I always said if they could come up with some type of a synthetic material that emulates that look, I mean, they're going to hit a home run. And when I heard they were working on this, it really intrigued me. And so we developed a friendship and a relationship right off the bat and  we kind of work together in regards to they ask questions from installation and just what people want in the marketplace and what they're looking for, installation methods, how this product could be manufactured to go on easier. And it just really was kind of a fun deal helping them put this thing together and watching this thing grows, it's been pretty amazing. 

Mike Heiland: We were fortunate enough that once they started coming out with the product, of course it's new to us, new to them, so we're all trying to figure this thing out. We were invited up to their facility to actually go through some installation and some training and everything like that. They were fantastic in doing that in the early years. Of course, they want the product put on right. We do too. We want our customer happy. We don't want problems. Just like Andrew said, we don't want that phone call at one in the morning with water coming in a house or shingles blowing off the roof or anything else. Nobody wants that. So anyway, it was just really a great experience working with him side by side to watch this thing go. And then believing that once this thing got out there and we got a few installations put on, it didn't take much to sell this. 

Mike Heiland: I mean, the people loved the look and  it was just really neat to see DaVinci take it, that the initial product compared to what they have now, it's pretty amazing how it's just developed and transferred into a more beautiful product. They've really come a long ways in doing that. Not that it wasn't great back then, it's still a good product. Actually, the last slide that you saw that was my house. I put it on my own property. If that speaks for itself. That's how much of a believer I was. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There you go. 

Mike Heiland: Well, it wasn't that house. I wish that was my house. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There we go. 

Mike Heiland: There you go. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There we go. 

Mike Heiland: That's a little more affordable for a roofing contractor. But no, that was a lot of fun putting that thing on. And I think Tim actually came down while we were doing it and he actually came down and took some pictures. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Love it. 

Mike Heiland: It was a new experience. But in regards to our relationship, they've been great, very supportive, whether it's through marketing, postcards, trade shows, whatever the case may be, they established, I can't remember the exact year, but the Masterpiece program which we're a part of and  that's been really beneficial. They've been great about supporting us and different causes and different advertising campaigns and really helped us grow the DaVinci side of our company. And we've installed ... Believe it or not, I didn't even know this. Danielle Weiss is my rep who does a fabulous job for us. She just made me aware that we had installed, it's been well over 10,000 squares of DaVinci up to date and  that's just a lot of material. I just didn't even realize that we put so many on. After a while, you just keep rolling. But it's just been a great experience and it's always fun when we're done to see the customers. 

Mike Heiland: You don't realize how big of a part of the house or a commercial building, whatever it is, that the roof is. I mean, it really does make a difference. When you look at it's every bit of probably half to two thirds of the look of the house. And so to take that old roof, that old shake roof off and then put a very nice, multi-width, staggered shake or a slate look, whatever the case may be, totally transforms that property. And we've had so many people just really, really excited and just love the look of what they put on besides the fact of the performance and the fact that they just, in their mind, they're thinking, hey, with an exception to a massive storm tornado or maybe four or five inch hail, they just aren't going to have to worry about that rough anymore. And that's a great thing from our standpoint to leave with our customers that peace of mind. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: To be able to put all that together and  you know what, Mike, it really ... I just have to tell you, I think the world of you, because I've been involved in the industry bringing new products into the market and  it's never easy really to bring a brand new product into the market, whether that is with the contractors kind of understanding in it and believing in it and  then obviously selling something brand new to the owners out there. Talk a little bit about how you were able to, as a company, bring this new, you basically brought this new product to your market and have now over 10,000 squares of product. I mean, that's really impressive. Can you talk a little bit about the challenges and also obviously the benefits? 

Mike Heiland: You bet. I can't say it doesn't come without a challenge. I mean, everything, the construction industry, it's a risky business. Roofing is even riskier. I mean, there's a lot that goes on. We're dealing with weather, we're dealing with tearing people's roofs off. You could get a storm moving in. We've got employees and contractors up on steep roofs, one to three stories tall at times. There's a lot of things going on. So when you're out there trying to market all this and deal with all those issues on top, it gets to be kind of complicated. But at the end of the day, DaVinci really when they came out with this, made it kind of easy just because of the beauty of the product. It wasn't real tough to sell it because once we got two or three of these on, obviously we'd market that, take pictures, do postcards, mailers, I'd do a little TV and  people saw it, they loved it and  then they'd ask about it and they just kind of mushroomed from there. 

Mike Heiland: But at the end of the day, it is a lot of work. I mean, it really is. If you're going to be in this industry, you've got to work hard. I mean, it doesn't come easy and when you're starting fresh with a new product, we had to get out and hustle, tell people about it and  it was just a lot of work going out to neighborhoods. We went to a lot of HOAs and actually went to meetings and introduced at the meetings. Say, "Hey, folks, you've got all these shake roofs on your house. You're going to have to do something, but here's a new product that looks just like it that you can replace it with." And at the end of the day, back in the day, things still feel ... inflation's changed things a bit this last run-up roofing materials have been hit pretty hard with inflation, but back then, the actual cost of a shake compared to a cost of a DaVinci, it was a little bit more, but it wasn't too far apart. 

Mike Heiland: So it made it incredibly appealing. And it was really, from that standpoint, it was a super easy sale and it was amazing how many HOAs just ... They sold a lot of it for us. They just spread it out, take it to their meetings, send it out in emails and  it just took off. But it was a lot of fun taking something new because we all ... In today's world, there's so much out there, you don't get too many things where it's really new and innovative and  so it's kind of humdrum. You just kind of think every day we're putting the same stuff on, we're all putting the same stuff on. That was a really exciting time because that was something very, very unique and different and  people were excited about it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is cool. I was there. I remember it. I remember all the great things. Seeing DaVinci come into the market was so incredible. Andrew, I want to ask that same question while we're here on this of you and your brother introducing DaVinci to your clientele. And like you said, I love what you said, we talk about it in every cell, every call. And what was it like bringing that into the market? I realize in 2019, DaVinci was already out there and composite was not a brand new thing anymore, but into your market and into your business, how did that work? 

Andrew Prchal: Absolutely. So actually the last slide was a roof that we did and it won project of the year. And just like Mike was saying, I do want to touch on this too, just the support as far as going out, getting photos, taking amazing photos of this property, I mean, DaVinci set it all up, got it all set to go and  it was like, "Hey, here we go." So having that support and  even just to kind of circle back to your first question of talking about it with our customers, first thing a customer says, "I want to see it installed." You seeing an example and seeing it installed is totally different. So for this customer, actually, we had to go, we put samples up on the roof and he was like, "I want to try a different color. I want to try this, I want to try that." And at the end of the project, he goes, "This is exactly what this house needs." 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Beautiful. 

Andrew Prchal: He just fell in love with it. But introducing it to our customers, that was the toughest part, was just saying, "Hey, let me show you this product." And then we didn't have a lot of installs to show them. So it was nice to be able to talk to DaVinci and say, "All right, we want to see some actual examples of this product." And then really it's just talking through goals with our customers. What is your goal? What is the goal of the house? Is this your forever home that you want it to look a certain way? The different profiles that DaVinci has, I mean, it knocks out of the park. Even for this roof, people drive by it and they're like, "Is that real estate that you guys did over there?" It's just so nice. So yeah, I mean to answer that, it's really just leaning on your resources that you have available. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: When I really think about all of this, everything that you were both saying, everything I've witnessed in the industry over the last 30, 25 years, it is pretty incredible. And Mark, it seems like you got a lot of things going the right way here with these roofing contractors, really huge fans, right? Avid fans. Talk to us a little bit about where DaVinci is at and meeting market demand, really seeing how the owners, the homeowners and  the consumers are really demanding this type of profiles and colors and performance. 

Mark Pagel: Sure. Yeah. I think the industry and just how homeowners are perceiving the product that they're putting on their roof, that's protecting their largest investment. The way the insurance industry is treating all of the roofing business now, what DaVinci is able to do is to give peace of mind to the homeowner, to the contractor, to the insurance coverage. I touched on it a little briefly before, but the qualities of the product, it allows a full wind rating, the impact class four wind, excuse me, impact rating, the fire class, a fire system, all of those things coupled with the maintenance and the beauty that we are able to achieve with a product that really is modeled after natural products. Mike talked a little bit about what went into the development of the products and  there's actually, we took a piece of cedar, we took a piece of slate and said to artists, "Let's create this so that it looks like a natural product." 

Mark Pagel: And we've done that. And I think what it allows for our customer base, customers like Mike and Andrew, I like how they said this because I think what we're doing is we talk about partnerships. We're helping them grow the business even when the customer doesn't buy our product. You may be leading your sales presentation with a product like DaVinci and really to see, as I talked about earlier, the aspirational qualities of what they could do with their project, with their home, with our product. And then you can start talking through, "Okay, this is what we're going to achieve from a wind rating. This is what we can do for fire impact, how it's going to affect your insurance costs going forward," and then create a budget around that. And if maybe our products aren't within their budget, but they've gained the trust of that homeowner by talking about a high quality product like DaVinci as an option. It allows them to find and complete the sales process. 

Mark Pagel: So we like our position. We know we're not going to be on every roof that's installed, but we really want to be a major part of what our customers like Mike and Andrew are doing in the home to help them be successful because we know that we are still going to be a percentage of their overall business and really find ways to help them grow. And what the whole podcast is talking about is being a multimillion-dollar business and DaVinci again helps our contractors become that. But then at the same time, it's giving that peace of mind to the homeowners and to a community. 

Mark Pagel: Mike talked about HOAs. They've been a fantastic market for DaVinci as well. The insurance industry is recognizing what we can do for their investment as well in the industry. So like I said, we check a lot of boxes on what it is that people are looking for when they're purchasing a roof. Andrew talked about what are you trying to accomplish with this project? I feel we have all those answers or many of those answers of what people are looking for from the aesthetics, from a performance, from the overall value that we can create with a project. So we like to say that we've been a big part of helping others grow business throughout this industry. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A win-win win. I always say three wins. Mike and Andrew, I'm going to start with Mike, when you look at this list, I mean, of course, everybody wants a beautiful roof. They want a roof that can just wow from curb appeal, but there is so much going on right now with severe weather, whether that is hail, fire or hurricanes, obviously, we're just about ready to start into hurricane season also. And Mike, you've worked a lot with insurance companies, a lot of hail some years not so as much as others, but how do you see that changing in homeowners really kind of looking at this with the thought that, "I'm not going to have to change this roof or get a new roof every time we have a big hail storm"? 

Mike Heiland: Yeah, there's no doubt there's a change taking place as we speak. I don't know if any of you have had an insurance renewal on your home, but it's pretty staggering. I mean, just mine literally with no claims doubled here at our last renewal and  I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure I know what's driving that. A lot of it's inflation, but we do have all this hail and fires and tornadoes and hurricanes and everything coming through. So I think the insurance industry take for granted, back in the '80s and '90s when I first started, I mean, the insurance company was pretty generous. They wouldn't hesitate to buy a roof if it had little damage on it. They want to keep their customer happy, they'd take care of it and do it. Roofs back then were relatively affordable. It kind of made sense. 

Mike Heiland: Now, my goodness, it's just gotten so expensive. We've had some roofs that we've done here recently, just within probably the last two, three months, we did the roof 20 years ago, exact same roof, we're just putting the same roof back on. It's gone up probably close to a hundred to 120%. I mean, they just can't believe it, it wasn't a DaVinci because it goes back so far, but a comp roof, just a basic comp roof. So I mean, that's kind of where they're coming from is I think they're just saying, "Hey, we can't keep up with premiums to cover the cost of what it's taking to put these new roofs on." So I think when you look at DaVinci, not only do you have the aesthetic beauty of it, but the big, big plus and for the insurance industry and the homeowner is the durability and the lifespan. You put this thing on, you've got something that's going to last a long time. 

Mike Heiland: The insurance company loves it. They're probably going to give you some kind of a break on your premium to help offset all these rises. I'll tell you, I was at the IBS show in Vegas. I've been going to that thing for probably 25, 30 years to watch the changes over time of materials of where everything now is going. There's just so much stuff going synthetic. [inaudible 00:41:36] material, it's siding and windows and doors. I mean, it's just amazing what's going on with technology and  a lot of that is insurance driven. I mean, they're just looking for other materials that can help make your home handle the impact of these severe storms. 

Mike Heiland: And besides just the temperatures, like we talked about with Andrew up where he lives, I don't know in the Midwest where it gets rougher than anywhere in the country. We've got extreme heat, extreme cold, hail, major rain, extreme wind. I mean, it's just brutal on all aspects of construction of a home. But it's really tough on roofs. And I'll be honest with you guys, I go back from day one with DaVinci and  we have yet, to this day, we have not replaced one DaVinci roof due to a hail storm of all those squares we put on. Nothing's been hailed out. We did have one massive storm in West Wichita where we had, it was like four inch hail. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh my gosh. 

Mike Heiland: And I think it was a, if I remember right, it was a multi-width shake and  I think it might've knocked off five shingles [inaudible 00:42:54]. That was it. Everyone else in the neighborhood with comps roofs, shakes, even concrete tiles were pretty much destroyed. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You think that would just go right through the roof. 

Mike Heiland: Well, they did. Literally they did. Yeah. They were leaving massive five inch holes in golf course greens. I mean, it was just crazy. But that's the kind of stuff, but it is a compliment to the product to see that kind of a result firsthand to see how it performed. So pretty impressive. Not everyone, I mean, it's like we spoke about before and Mark brought it up, not everybody can put a DaVinci roof on. It doesn't make sense. 

Mike Heiland: These are not cheap roofs. I do think they make sense for the right property and for the right homeowner, but if you got a $250,000 house and you're putting on a $75,000 roof, it may not ... Even though I've had people do that, I've had some people say, "Hey, we want it. We're going to do it." And they had the money, power to them. I mean, that's great. We'll be happy to put it on, but that's not going to be your normal customer. A lot of these homes, that home that I talked about was probably an $800,000 house, maybe a million, but he was tickled to death when all of his neighbors took those hits and we just went up and patched in about five shingles. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's amazing. Five [inaudible 00:44:12]. Andrew, along with everything that's happening with the weather, the extreme weather and  we kind of talked about this yesterday during the practice, so how important is the made in the USA? How important is that to you, the contractor and to your customers? 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah, I think it's huge. I mean, especially in kind of the environment now, knowing that it is made in the USA is awesome. I mean, our customers love it. It gets brought up quite a bit like is this product made in the USA? So talking on that, I mean, even from our logo, we're a patriotic company. This is a country that's given back so much to us. So we love to support our country. And DaVinci being made in the USA is another big part of it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love that. I love that. I know I love that heart and I want to remind everybody that the chat is open if that kind of ... I love these kinds of conversations, so please, if you have any questions, ask them. But I have a big question for Mark and  that question is, wow, you've got a lot going on. How are you going to meet all this market demand? 

Mark Pagel: That's a good question. It's been some very exciting times. The growth that we've had at DaVinci has been spectacular and really a big part of this now we're owned by the Westlake Corporation. The investment that they are putting into DaVinci is extremely impressive. We've got multiple new pieces of equipment that'll be coming online here in actually the next 30 days. But really beyond that, the investment in the quality of the product with the molds that we use, it's all of an injection molding process and  our molds are quite expensive to produce, to be able to, like I said, get that artistic quality of the product that we really are trying to achieve to go with the performance. 

Mark Pagel: It's an expensive proposition to produce our product, but that truly the investment that's been put back into the facility really since the beginning. But in the last six years now since Westlake has owned the company, it's been very impressive. Really the expectation is to continue that growth and to continue to be able to produce more and more and continue telling the story about what's going to set DaVinci apart and our contractor base apart from others, other products, other contractors in the marketplace, not just the equipment, but the space that we have to produce the product. 

Mark Pagel: We're coming out with new colors. We've got two new colors in our slate line that just were added earlier this year. We'll have new colors coming in our shake line. We have a new shake product that will be out in the next six months, eight months that we're bringing new things. We're always looking for what the next innovation's going to be to help really continue to set us apart from our competition and then allow our contractor base to really be the answer to every question that the homeowner is looking for out there. 

Mark Pagel: Really, like I said, to meet that market demand is really, it's all about the investment back into the company because we see the results and hopefully our customers are seeing the results and  obviously, they are because the demand for our product lines are significant. We've had a fantastic year. The business has grown, like I said, substantially over the last five years and  it's been a very fun ride to be a part of and to enjoy telling the story to our customers like Mike and Mike and Andrew and  to yourself and talking to the wider audience here today as well. 

Mike Heiland: It's Mark. I did want to tell you when I was at the IBS show, I think I saw you there. I get a chance to speak with you, but your display was beyond professional and impressive. I mean, it really was. That was one of the premier displays at the show is just incredible. So it just presents itself very, very well. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, we were very lucky to do- 

Mark Pagel: We were very- 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Sorry. 

Mark Pagel: Go ahead. Yeah, Heidi, you were right there in the booth with us, I believe too, weren't you? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, we're doing live podcasting. That so fun. 

Mark Pagel: Yeah. It was a great show. Both IBS and IRE also this year were really good platforms to talk about, not just DaVinci, but the overall Westlake companies. I think you're right. I think we did put a very nice foot forward with how we showed really everything that's behind DaVinci as a company and what we can do for our customers and  I was very happy with how it turned out, so I'm glad you liked it as well, Mike. 

Mike Heiland: Yeah. 

Mark Pagel: Heidi, you were a big part of that too, coming in and broadcasting, so thank you. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It was so great. So impressive, so impressive. Well and  I think it's those kind of opportunities to be at those shows, to be so involved in the industry that gives all of the ... really gives the resources that the contractors need to sell and to also educate and really find solutions for the homeowners. So Andrew, I would love for you to start us out on this slide of kind of just talk about that sales process and really all of the things here that are important to owners. 

Andrew Prchal: And by the way, I've seen the factory and when Mark said that they're putting a lot of resources into it, I mean, it's impressive. It really is. And I think that obviously just reflects on the product as a whole, but when we sell to our customers, we like to, I talked about it before, but ask them their goals. What is your goal? What are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish and how do we tailor this experience and what they might want towards them? So biggest thing, Mike's talked about it, but replacing natural products. I mean, once you have to do that two, three times in a home's lifespan, it's kind of a pain. 

Andrew Prchal: So just talking about that with them and really just showing that, hey, yeah, maybe there wasn't an option out there 25 years ago that looked this good and lasted this long, but now there is. And so we've definitely seen it and year after year, we see more and more demand for synthetic. We just plan on it. We're seeing more customers talk about it, we're seeing more people talk about it. We're seeing suppliers that are referring customers to it. So I think it's one of those things where it's just nice to know that we can get it and our customers do really, really like it. Just talking about it with customers. And then a big thing is the ROI. 

Andrew Prchal: I know we've talked about the rising roof costs and now 25, 30 years ago, it was a little bit more affordable, but once you actually put that into perspective for a homeowner and you say, "Let's just say this roof is $50,000. If you were to replace it 25 years from now, it's a hundred thousand dollars." Just throwing random numbers out there. Once you add those two together and you're talking about replacing a roof twice in a 50-year lifespan, I mean, it really does start to make sense. So that's a thing that we just like to break down with our customers. We also offer financing just so then that way if people do want to go in between, they're in between a traditional asphalt roof, let's just say and  a product like DaVinci, they can go for this product because it makes more sense for them. Spread those payments out, get the roof that they want, the look that they want and the quality that they deserve. So I think that's what we do. I mean, I know a lot of people do it differently, but that's what works for us. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And it makes sense because you really are listening to the homeowner or the building owner, whoever it may be that you're working with. Mike, some of your thoughts around really taking care of your customers with these products. 

Mike Heiland: Andrew summed it up nicely. We also, when we're selling a product such as DaVinci, it's very, very different than selling a laminate shingle. I mean, it really is. They make good laminate shingles now that last quite some time, but it's still not comparable to the performance of DaVinci and  there is a cost difference. So you really do, we literally lay the math out and say, "Here's what this is going to cost. Here's what that comp roof's going to cost and  I assure you, next time you get a two to two and a half inch hail storm, that comp roof, I don't care if it's impact rated or not, it's going to total that DaVinci roof," based on what I've seen in our marketplace, I don't think it will. 

Mike Heiland: And if it doesn't think about the savings, the headache, what you're going to have to go through your insurance premiums, you start adding all that up, it makes a big difference. So when people look at that and if they have the money, if not, again, we offer financing also if they want to finance some of that and stretch that cost out. But it really comes down to just taking the time to spend with the customers to explain these things and educate them. It's really tough. I think we spoke about this before the show, here in Wichita, we're in the hail belt and  I'll tell you, we haven't had a lot of hail and we just haven't over the last ... We were just talking about it with some people in the office here recently. 

Mike Heiland: Over the last nine, 10 years, we've only had one major storm, which is abnormal. Back in the '80s and '90s and early 2000s, my goodness, it was almost every other year. It was just crazy. So they're just different weather patterns, but when those big storms hit, it's really difficult for us and our salespeople to sit down with customers and really sit down and do all this and explain and sell. We're so busy. I mean, the phone's ringing off the hook. People just want to get on the list to get the roof repaired. So it's a little different situation. Right now where it is when people call and they want a good upper end product and they have a beautiful home, it really does allow us to sit down with them and explain and look at these things and show them what this will add to their property and how much beauty it'll add to the looks of their property. 

Mike Heiland: It's always tough to sell, but believe it or not, this product makes it a lot easier because of the look and the performance and what you're offering. Ultimately, it is a little sticker shock when they look at that price and they think, "Man, that's expensive. I didn't realize roofs cost that much." But at the end of the day, even what we're seeing, even the composition upper end shingles right now, they're getting up there too. I mean, it's not to the point to where it's three, four times, it may be 60, 80%, but when you look at replacement of that roof two or three times compared to one time of doing the DaVinci, it's a no-brainer if you have the money and the financing to back it up. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And it really has to do with too that we have different, I think owners and have different requirements too. They aren't willing to go through that every time, every time there's a storm or every time there's something else. And when you're really looking at that, Mike, as you are looking to the future of growing your business, it's getting back to our topic of growing that multi-million dollar business, what are some of the things that you are working on to build your business? I can't believe this has gone so fast, just give us a highlight because we have only about five minutes left. 

Mike Heiland: We're fine. Obviously, especially like we talked about, we've been spoiled in the past and been driven by insurance and storms, which that's easy. I mean, that just happens. Work, just, I hate to say it, it's almost handed to you. So when it gets a little bit like it is now, you have to get out and work a little and market and do some things again, we're out, we do mailers. We go visit homeowners associations. Our salespeople are out, of course, talking to people on a regular basis. We do a lot of work with insurance companies and insurance agents and  we just have to spend more time with those customers. And it's amazing, at least in our, we aren't a two, three million people population in Wichita, but we handle all the surrounding area and parts of Oklahoma. Just word of mouth is an amazing thing in the industry. It really is. 

Mike Heiland: This is such a people oriented business. People don't know that, but it is and  it really is, the farther you reach out and get your tentacles out there and you do good work, take care of people, do the right thing. As I spoke before, construction does not always go smooth. It's just the way it is. If you do have any mistakes or any problems, take care of it. Take care of your customer, it's amazing how far that'll go. You just make it right and you move to the next one. You don't win them all. And you do that and the word of mouth gets out and it just keeps going. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's so true. Yeah. 

Mike Heiland: No. You're fine. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: But I was thinking that's so true and  having that relationship with a manufacturer, which we started talking about at the beginning too. Andrew, what are you looking for in the future? What's kind of your plan on growing your composite market? 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah, I mean, I think that naturally, I know I mentioned it before that it just, it's a lot more popular year after year. So right now it's probably about 3% of our business. I definitely, I expect it to be almost 10% in the next five years just because of customers really not wanting to have to deal with just issues with natural alternatives and rising costs of roofing and having to do the roof so many times with it on their home. So I think that's a big thing. And then just the actual cost of other materials. I mean, we have just a lot of people that don't want it actually install, let's just say a slate or a cedar product, but then you talk about a synthetic, they're like, "Oh yeah, I'll do that every day." 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Andrew Prchal: So I think that's a big thing too, is even just not even on the cost of the actual product, but the actual cost of installing it. We've got a lot- 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Labor. 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's our next webinar we should talk about. Yeah. 

Andrew Prchal: Yeah. I think that's a big thing to really consider is there's more than just cost of obviously the product that can go up. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And when you have crews who are loving the product they're installing, that makes a big difference. 

Andrew Prchal: Makes it easy. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it does. Mark, bring us home. We're right at the end. DaVinci is ready to help? 

Mark Pagel: Yep, absolutely. A hundred percent ready to help. What we want to do is help our customers like Mike and Andrew, take it from 3% to 10%. And we know if we're successful doing that, spreading that message about what composite roofing can do for them and they can keep telling that story out there to other homeowners across the country, we're all going to be successful. And that's really what it's all about. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. You gentlemen have been amazing. This hour has flown by. Thank you so much. Thank you for all of your wisdom. It's just been so enjoyable. Thank you all. 

Andrew Prchal: Thank you. 

Mike Heiland: Thank you. 

Andrew Prchal: It's been great. 

Outro: Thank you. And thank you all for listening. Thank you for all being a part of this great RLW. This happens every month, last Wednesday of the month. You can find our next RLW at the end of June. We will be seeing you there. This amazing RLW from today will be available 24 to 48 hours right what you're seeing on the screen. Have a wonderful day and  we'll see you next time on Roofers Coffee Shop RLW.