sub-contracting

To give you a bit of history of my company; this is our 61st year in the roofing biz without ever closeing or changing biz name. My father started and ran the biz for 30 yrs and this is my 31st year. I have a 25 yr old son that is my right hand man and he wants to take over some day. We are in a medium sized town of 175,000 peeps. Much of our work comes by refferals but we also advertise small in the yellow pages. I employ about 9 men making up 2 crews in peak season and shut down for bout 12 weeks in winter. The only work that I have sub-contracted out is the gutter work that I may sell with a roof job. Now Im from the old school where the ropes and harnesses on roofs have never happened and when thinking bout this new osha rule taking effect keeps me up at night figuring out how to be profitable. Does any of you do the sub-contracting thing exclusively. Im thinking I could sell enough work to keep 4 or 5 crews busy since they will all be required to follow the osha rule which I feel will slow each project down considerably. If each crew is a partnership company in itself will they have to follow the osha rule. I know that I dont have to since im the owner. There use to be a roofing co. in town that only subbed years ago and they kept several crews going. We have never subbed our work out since I feel the quality of workmanship would go down but between my son and I I feel that we now may be able to control that. I know that I could save a ton on WC and other insurances. Sorry for the long rant but Im hopeing some of you can give me some constructive pointers or pitfalls to watch for. Thanks in advance-------------------H

Lanny,

The rules on a 4/12 are going to be no different than a 6/12 this summer. Everything else that was stated I am in agreement with. It's just like taking a ladder to the job, after a month every employee is used to it and they feel naked without putting on the safety gear. Owners have the duty to keep their workers safe. If it means putting the blame on OSHA for making up the rules then blame them, however in the long run it's one less thing to worry about. Subbing out the work is no different. Big company that finds the work is now responsible. Trust me on this one. The lawyers are going to find the one that holds the check... I have seen companies get fined for something that there sub did. Both companies got fined. Not a good choice at all to take your quality out of the mix just to try and beat OSHA. You won't win. Maybe for awhile but the statistics will catch up to you.

Lanny, thanks for that post. It certainly gives me something to think about.

Amen,PC

In a little defense to the $ grubbers, (LOL),....It's really not about safety w/big bro....Can't totally get my arms around it; It's mostly about power over others.

Haatchetman, I sub everything out because quite frankly, if I was the one pounding the shingles on, the quality WOULD CERTAINLY DEGRADE. I find it easy to demand quality because I won't pay if they job isn't perfect. I watch too.

I'm interested in your "partnering" arrangement. Can you elaborate on that?

Hatchet,

Stay the straight'n narrow. What I'm referring to is; Don't play the "miss-represemnting your employees, as subs game"....Glad to hear there's a few out there that actually play by the rules....We do likewise....We've been in biz since 83'.

To reiterate another; As the prime contractor, your still on the hook w/OSHA if one of your "subs" is nabbed.

What's all the hoopla anyway? We've been complying with this stuff for a couple of decades!(?)

I called our area osha inspector (yea I have his cell #; we installed his home roof 2 years ago) and asked him about the sub contracting thing. He did not want to go on record and give any info but he did give me the # to the reginal osha lawyers dept.

They told me as long as I was not incorperated; I am not covered by osha regs and if I "found work" for a legit roofing company made up of a few men that have formed a partnership and also not incorperated then they to would not be covered. The person said that if they had anyone on the job that was not an owner that person would be covered and the partners which I "found work" for would be responsable. The person used the words "found work for" at least five times in his explaination of this so Im thinking that this is important. Oh and they were quick to add that it could not be ruled out that I could recieve a citation also and then told me I should speak to a contract attorney to get all sub-contracting documented to cover my azz.

On another note I took delivery of roofing shingles from ABC SUPPLY yesterday and the driver said that they also have new regs to comply with starting june 16 also and he said the new rules will be way over the top in the name of safty; such as perimiter cones and ropes and flags and in some cases spotters and in some cases 2 spotters from ABC. BS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------H