Stereotyping & Religion

Ciak I was only relating to what the bible teaches.Jesus made it clear not all who call on the name of the Lord would be saved because they teach thoughts of men not God's thoughts. So that means not all religions teach what is correct. One must read and study the bible to find the truth that is in it. Look at the origins of most holidays and you will find pagan influence but most churches accept them and teach them as bible based. That practice is condemned in the bible, Not by me.Just read the accounts of the Israelites and how they tried to mix false religion with true religion and see what happened to them. I'm only showing people what it says. I've spent over 30 years studying the bible. Don't mean to offend anybody Just sharing what I've learned. Matthew 7: 13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness. 24 “Therefore everyone that hears these sayings of mine and does them will be likened to a discreet man, who built his house upon the rock-mass. 25 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded upon the rock-mass. 26 Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be likened to a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. 27 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”

28 Now when Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching; 29 for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes.>>>

Hay guys,been busy this weekend. I will try to get back in the groove after today. Chuck.....I'm going to try to find some relevence of the third person of the Trinity (what most term Trinity, I term Godhead)in Old Testsment. I know it's there just got to run it down. Will be posting later.

I always use the King James version of the Bible, what do you all use?>>>

I think it may be important also if we are talking with Orthodox language . There are groups ( a few of them are centered here where I live ) That use the same words that have a different meaning than the traditional . It is all very interesting however maybe a little disingenuous if it isn't pointed out in the conversation>>>

copper I was with you right up until the fangs came out. To me in a discussion along the lines of this , it is important to keep the dialogue open. That was a typical trick used by many of different ideas to be right. Right unfortunately is sometimes pompous arrogant . Can we please stick to the subject at hand and not try to remove splinters when all of us have logs . This is not a rebuke . Just a kind reminder their are many who may not agree. Perhaps we are not correct . Lets keep it a discussion " Please " or it will die . The trick : So given the fact that the trinity started long after Jesus died and the apostils were gone I would say the trinity is a false teaching , that is good ..............It is here I'm talking about.. Acts 20:29,30 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves. It is hard to resist I understand . Try OK>>>

Mike there is a difference between Mighty God and Almighty God. Jesus is a god in that he is immortal but the bible shows he never claimed to be Almighty God. The devil is also a god but not almighty god. 1 Corinthians 8:5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.. This verse sums it up Phipippians 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Note the last sentance he give all glory to the father.

here are few more verses to consider; Mark 13:32 concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, Neither the angles in heaven nor the son, But the father. If Jesus is god would he not know the time of the end? John 12:49 I have not spoken of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given ma a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. Out of his own mouth he say his teachings do not come from him, they come from the Father. John 14:28 If you love me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the father, Because the Father is greater then I am. Here Jesus acknowledged that he and his Father are not equals.

So given the fact that the trinity started long after Jesus died and the apostils were gone I would say the trinity is a false teaching Acts 20:29,30 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves. >>>

No problem Mike we are in total agreement about Jesus being built upon pebble by pebble stone by stone boulder by boulder in Old Testament Scripture till Bethlehem to the ascension Amazing .My question is the trinity ....no evidence no scripture prophicey just men for what ever reason I can only quess and don't want to so it is conjured . That is the evidence I'm looking for. As I read the issue on faith and in the context of copperman's reply it appears quite evident that the faith mentioned about the trinity by P.O.T is a paradigm. I'm also certain I've heard it from many same arguement no substance . It is just the facts as I see them right now This is open to anyone who wants to enter . I want to invite anyone please you are more than welcome>>>

CIAK,

I would have never made the reference to the 333rd post. Just was not paying any attention to the post count and was not looking at it from that perspective. Ignorance is bliss......... one I often enjoy.

To answer your question above. The entire old testament is a collection that step by step builds to coming of Christ. I once had an exceptional demonstration of it, and I will try to find it. But one simple example of that for which you ask is the verse I asked Pot to comment on. To me, it seems so plain and simple. Isaiah is of a course, a book of prophesy, both for the coming of Christ and the end times.

Isaiah 9:6 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful(some interpretations put a comma between these two words) Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. >>>

I read the issue on faith and in the context of copperman's reply it appears quite evident that the faith mentioned about trinity is a paradigm . I not implying faith is something that isn't required to have a belief in God. I know all to well it is a requirement. That being said I believe like you that Jesus was or is the Son . Their is one God . The evidence point strongly to the trinity being a man made idea. As mentioned the Bible prophecy have scripture points to Jesus . I can see that. It never mention a trinity never not even in prophecy . Can you show me where that might be read ?>>>

Got it Jed. Thanks . How is it that one person has no clue and another can see it. hmmmmmm I didn't think it was that obscure. We are talking spiritual some of it hocus pocus , numerology in my estimation is hocus pocus . It is out there even mentioned in the " Bible " old testament . The triune stuff is looking like a hocus pocus illusion created by man . Their are so many reference points . It just is beyond me how there was a disconnect. Every one I know has a lucky number mine happens to be 5. For some it 7 or 3 . So the number reference is there. Now the number 666 How many Christians don't know that one ? I think it is just laziness . A preconceived prejudice and lack of reaching for understanding a blind spot in the mind . This isn't meant as a put down just an observation I don't mean lose any one again . But here goes .......... It is quite possible it is " Stereotyping & Religion " savvy>>>

Talking of faith....below is a sampling of what the scriptures gives on faith.

Rom.3

19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28. Your text here Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom.5

1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom.9

31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;Your text here 33. As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

II Cor.5

7. (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)Your text here

Hebrews 11

1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Your text here 2. For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10. For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him a

Pot,

As I seem to recall, and I've been really busy here of late, and don't recall what I had for dinner Your text here, let alone the content of 320+ lost posts, I thought your interpretation of the trinity was three distinct beings and that Christ was not diety. I would say that what I read points toward Christ being God, in flesh, and while equal in one sense, not equal in another, yet still the same. Fur shur a concept that is impossible to wrap a three dimensional mind around. A concept that takes faith, for reason could never explain it. Your text here

A senior moment perhaps..lol lol...I can relate ;)

I can certainly agree with the (takes faith) comment. It is very hard for finite minds to concept infinite things.

>>>

I got it Mike. Thanks>>>

Now see Ciak, that's what I'm talking about. I have no idea what you just said to egg. Not the first clue. Wouldn't know how to respond to it, if I wanted to. So it's not a lack of desire, interest or matter of courtesy, but rather one of confusion that keeps me silent to your posts.>>>

egg The numerology of your post and content.... The Ascended Masters are near you, desiring you to know that you have their help, love, well you get the idea . 333 cool if this thing goes to 666 I'll leave it to someone else . I don't subscribe to those belief .>>>

When you set out to explore all the facets of this triune concept, and include a look at the history of its development, even if in the end it does nothing to change one's orientation, you get a very, very good look at the way the human mind has coped with the whole issue of God and religion.

For the record I believe Jesus was a pivot point in the world of man but I also believe the pivot point of Christianity, the state-ordered religion of the late Roman empire, is located at a different mental and temporal spot than that of Jesus' life or even the mortal lives of any of his apostles or even the mortal lives of any of his apostles' apostles.

The potential problem with this is that the text of the New Testament, and therefore the Bible itself, is inextricably bound to Emperor Constantine, the first council of Nicaea, the Nicene Creed, and the concept of the triune God.

I know that there were some very difficult and dicey times during the early years, years that were so dangerous that one can understand the impulse of the bishops to curb debate.

Nevertheless, debate continued, raged even, for a great many decades. The first council was convened at Constantine's order, before he himself was even baptized, to settle once and for all by human committee, at spear-point, what existing text and policy would and what existing text and policy would not be included. I have a big problem with that.

One of the most telling issues that involved the Trinity was the issue of God hanging Himself on the cross.

In another day, even discussing any of this would have been heresy and punishable by death. Now THAT in itself presented its own serious problems and is misaligned to all of Jesus' teachings. Yet that creed is still in there at the heart of orthodoxy, like a spider-gear, driving who knows how many wheels in how many directions.

>>>