Stereotyping & Religion

Some lessons you don't want to learn but we're wired to learn them anyway, e.g., you stick your hand on a hot stove as a kid, you learn a lesson that will stick with you all your life.

Another of those lessons that I'd rather have not learned, but did>>>

Isaiah 43:10 You are my witnesses, is the utterance of Jehovah, Even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me..... Yes I am>>>

tarface , I believe that providence,the foreknowledge of God ,and predestination have a lot to do with the path we get in life, as to which one or way we will choose.

The qran and jewish scriptures will not give one the correct path to the gloryland, because they fail to recognize Jesus Christ, the Mesiah as God's son. And he is the only way by which our prayers can get to God.

Copper....are you a jehova's witness.>>>

Copperman: [ RE: Stereotyping & Religion ] , Thursday, January 29, 2009 @ 2:50 PM I am a : Roofer so even though evidence has been shown to prove that the trinity was man made after the fourth century and that the bible you use added words that are not in the original oldest texts and took God's name out you feel yours is more accurate. Ok to each his own. But I am fully confident in what I have learned and come to believe. Jesus said by there works you will know my sheep and only those that are foot step followers are the ones he will recognize.He also said in Matthew 24:14 This Good new of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. He didn't say all would listen.

As it should be ,if you are comfortable with it. After all, we are free moral agents with the ability to choose, but we shall see when eternity gets here,which is sound and which is not.>>>

Not to veer away from jesus and the christians but what makes one book realer oe truer than the next. "Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians...and (all) who believe in God and the last day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The Qur'an, 2:62>>>

so even though evidence has been shown to prove that the trinity was man made after the fourth century and that the bible you use added words that are not in the original oldest texts and took God's name out you feel yours is more accurate. Ok to each his own. But I am fully confident in what I have learned and come to believe. Jesus said by there works you will know my sheep and only those that are foot step followers are the ones he will recognize.He also said in Matthew 24:14 This Good new of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. He didn't say all would listen.

Matthew 15:8,9 This people honors me with their lips, yet there heart is far removed from me. it is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.

I choose to believe what is in the bible only.>>>

Copper, With all my heart, I respect your right to believe as you see fit, even if it does not match my beliefs, altho we will never be able to come to much of an agreement. The Bible you use is an orange and mine is an apple. Oranges and apples will never compare. So we will have to agree to disagree on a lot of Bible related subjects. The people who translated the version of the scriptures that you use have went to great pains to take away the personage of the Holy Ghost and transform it into a feeling and not a person. It is very evident that they have never had any personal contact with the true Holy Spirit, for them I am saddened, and for all who aspire to follow this type of teaching , I am saddened. I have had contact with him, and I can assure you that he is real, and the inner spiritual blessings that can be felt thru communion with him are beyond my finite minds ability to communicate,but real. All I have to offer, is what the Bible as I read it states. There are far many scriptures that give authenticity to what I believe, as to the personage of the Holy Spirit. These, to me carries about as much weight as any:

Mark 3 29. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Luke 12 10. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. 11. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12. For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

John 14 16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15 26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

>>>

Egg.... :laugh: :laugh:>>>

No Cain and all his descendants died at the flood of Noah's day. Gen.4:8 After that Cain said to Abel his brother: [“Let us go over into the field.”] So it came about that while they were in the field Cain proceeded to assault Abel his brother and kill him. 9 Later on Jehovah said to Cain: “Where is Abel your brother?” and he said: “I do not know. Am I my brother’s guardian?” 10 At this he said: “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed in banishment from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood at your hand. 12 When you cultivate the ground, it will not give you back its power. A wanderer and a fugitive you will become in the earth.” 13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: “My punishment for error is too great to carry. 14 Here you are actually driving me this day from off the surface of the ground, and from your face I shall be concealed; and I must become a wanderer and fugitive on the earth, and it is certain that anyone finding me will kill me.” 15 At this Jehovah said to him: “For that reason anyone killing Cain must suffer vengeance seven times.”

And so Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him should strike him. 16 With that Cain went away from the face of Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Fugitiveness to the east of E′den.

No one was allowed to kill him but he died a normal death.>>>

Currently living incognito as a tileman in Washington state.>>>

I believe the Holy Spirit is God's Powerful force that he uses to accomplish his will. bible references 2 Peter 1:21 Acts 4:31 acts 2:17-18 “If you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!”—LUKE 11:13. No were in the bible is it referred to as a person or being.>>>

So, copper, are you saying that you don't believe in the Holy Ghost, or are you saying that you don't believe that the 3 operate as one unit, or in unison with each other.>>>

Chuck.....I second that motion......I think?>>>

Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me, I hereby confer upon you the honorary degree of ThD---That’s doctor of thinkology. secundum Ortodoxam fidem .>>>

I could not paste the whole thing at once Edward Gibbon was defended in his findings by his contemporary, the brilliant British scholar Richard Porson who also proceeded to publish devastatingly conclusive proof that the verse of 1 John 5:7 was only first inserted by the Church into the Bible in the year 400C.E.(Secrets of Mount Sinai, James Bentley, pp. 30-33).

Regarding Porson's most devastating proof, Mr. Gibbon later said

"His structures are founded in argument, enriched with learning, and enlivened with wit, and his adversary neither deserves nor finds any quarter at his hands. The evidence of the three heavenly witnesses would now be rejected in any court of justice; but prejudice is blind, authority is deaf, and our vulgar Bibles will ever be polluted by this spurious text."

To which Mr. Bentley responds:

"In fact, they are not. No modern Bible now contains the interpolation."

Mr. Bentley, however, is mistaken. Indeed, just as Mr. Gibbon had predicted, the simple fact that the most learned scholars of Christianity now unanimously recognize this verse to be a later interpolation of the Church has not prevented the preservation of this fabricated text in our modern Bibles. To this day, the Bible in the hands of the majority of Christians, the "King James" Bible, still unhesitantly includes this verse as the "inspired" word of God without so much as a footnote to inform the reader that all scholars of Christianity of note unanimously recognize it as a later fabrication.

Peake's Commentary on the Bible says

"The famous interpolation after 'three witnesses' is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early Trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus."

It was only the horrors of the great inquisitions which held back Sir Isaac Newton from openly revealing these facts to all:

"In all the vehement universal and lasting controversy about the Trinity in Jerome's time and both before and long enough after it, the text of the 'three in heaven' was never once thought of. It is now in everybody's mouth and accounted the main text for the business and would assuredly have been so too with them, had it been in their books… Let them make good sense of it who are able. For my part I can make none. If it be said that we are not to determine what is scripture and what not by our private judgments, I confess it in places not controverted, but in disputed places I love to take up with what I can best understand. It is the temper of the hot and superstitious part of mankind in matters of religion ever to be fond of mysteries, and for that reason to like best what they understand least. Such men may use the Apostle John as they please, but I have that honor for him as to believe that he wrote good sense and therefore take that to be his which is the best"

Jesus, Prophet of Islam, Muhammad Ata' Ur-Rahim, p. 156

According to Newton, this verse first appeared for in the third edition of Erasmus's (1466-1536) New Testament.

For all of the above reasons, we find that when thirty two biblical scholars backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations got together to compile the Revised Standard Version of the Bible based upon the most ancient Biblical manuscripts available to them today, they made some very extensive changes. Among these changes was the unceremonious discardal of the verse of 1 John 5:7 as the fabricated insertion that it is. For more on the compilation of the RSV Bible, please read the preface of any modern copy of that Bible.

Such comparatively unimportant matters as the description of Jesus (pbuh) riding an ass (or was it a "colt", or was it an "ass and a colt"? see point 42 in the table of section 2.2) into Jerusalem are spoken about in great details since they are t

1.2.2.5 1 John 5:7

The only verses in the whole Bible that explicitly ties God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in one "Triune" being is the verse of 1 John 5:7

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

This is the type of clear, decisive, and to-the-point verse I have been asking for. However, as I would later find out, this verse is now universally recognized as being a later "insertion" of the Church and all recent versions of the Bible, such as the Revised Standard Version the New Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible, the New English Bible, the Phillips Modern English Bible ...etc. have all unceremoniously expunged this verse from their pages. Why is this? The scripture translator Benjamin Wilson gives the following explanation for this action in his "Emphatic Diaglott." Mr. Wilson says:

"This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifteenth century. It is not cited by any of the ecclesiastical writers; not by any of early Latin fathers even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have lead them to appeal to it's authority. It is therefore evidently spurious."

Others, such as the late Dr. Herbert W. Armstrong argued that this verse was added to the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible during the heat of the controversy between Rome, Arius, and God's people. Whatever the reason, this verse is now universally recognized as an insertion and discarded. Since the Bible contains no verses validating a "Trinity" therefore, centuries after the departure of Jesus, God chose to inspire someone to insert this verse in order to clarify the true nature of God as being a "Trinity." Notice how mankind was being inspired as to how to "clarify" the Bible centuries after the departure of Jesus (pbuh). People continued to put words in the mouths of Jesus, his disciples, and even God himself with no reservations whatsoever. They were being "inspired" (see chapter two).

If these people were being "inspired" by God, I wondered, then why did they need to put these words into other people's mouths (in our example, in the mouth of John). Why did they not just openly say "God inspired me and I will add a chapter to the Bible in my name"? Also, why did God need to wait till after the departure of Jesus to "inspire" his "true" nature? Why not let Jesus (pbuh) say it himself?

The great luminary of Western literature, Mr. Edward Gibbon, explains the reason for the discardal of this verse from the pages of the Bible with the following words:

"Of all the manuscripts now extant, above fourscore in number, some of which are more than 1200 years old, the orthodox copies of the Vatican, of the Complutensian editors, of Robert Stephens are becoming invisible; and the two manuscripts of Dublin and Berlin are unworthy to form an exception...In the eleventh and twelfth centuries, the Bibles were corrected by LanFrank, Archbishop of Canterbury, and by Nicholas, a cardinal and librarian of the Roman church, secundum Ortodoxam fidem. Notwithstanding these corrections, the passage is still wanting in twenty-five Latin manuscripts, the oldest and fairest; two qualities seldom united, except in manuscripts....The three witnesses have been established in our Greek Testaments by the prudence of Erasmus; the honest bigotry of the Complutensian editors; the typographical fraud, or error, of Robert Stephens in the placing of a crotchet and the deliberate falsehood, or strange misapprehension, of Theodore Beza."

"Decline and fall of the Roman Empire," IV, Gibbon, p. 418.>>>