RCS CLASSIC - OLD FORUM TOPIC: BOTTLED OUT

TOPIC-

Bottled Out- MIKE NZ

I am usually very good on ladders, never had any problems climbing them, even when it is windy. Today I freaked out half way up the ladder, 30 footer, I think Mike H has written about this situation on another topic a while back, where the roof overhangs the walls and there is no wall in front of you! It is like being out in the middle of nowhere. Here’s a picture of the setup (See Photo of the Month http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/rcs-social.asp).

I got halfway up and thought I am on my own, what if the ladder slips from under me or worse it slides sideways, that concrete looks quite hard, there was on one else around, the place was deserted, if I fell it could be hours before the security guards found my dead body. I went to the top to look over, but I didn’t have the bottle to limb over the edge onto the roof. I came back down to get my tape measure and camera and decided it would be safer to go up on that lower roof and then pull the ladder up and go the second step off that roof. Not sure what the fear is, but it is real. And it was worse than standing on the edge of a 13 story high flat roof. We just finished a roof where we had to climb 20 ft by ladder every day, but it had a wall in front of you and we never gave it a second thought, up and down 4, 5 times a day, for 3 weeks.

REPLIES-

ROOF DUDE- I know what you are talking bout Mike. I was doing a job in Avon, CO couple years ago. We were putting ** on these chimney tops. The roofs were metal & these chimneys tops were flat. We had a forty footer fully extended, & still came bout a foot short. My guy that was with me (not afraid of anything), got half way up & started coming down. He said **** that. I ain’t tying it off. I laughed, smoked a cigarette & tied it off. Oh yeah it snowed like two feet while we were doing this. When I’ve got the ladder set like your first picture, I usually have someone foot it. I hate ladders on concrete. I’ve seen more kick outs on concrete than anything. I much prefer to flip the feet & dig em into the grass.

BS- MIKENZ I don’t blame you for being scared. One thing I would do is back my truck up and put bottom of ladder against bumper, that way it would not slide out. I;ve ridden two down and not been hurt but will not press my luck any longer. I see you do not have a ladder rack like a pick up but I will tie bungies from top of rack to ladder. This would help a little for sideways. The scary part would be after you were on roof is getting back on ladder. That’s when the ladder would move the most. By the way both times ladder slide out from me was moss or algae on cement.

Mike H- Mike, Did you get to the point where the edge cambers back towards the ladder? That’s where it really gets screwy. Your mind suddenly tells you that you are tilting backwards. Very weird. I have climbed a number of ladders on steel structures where the masonry shell was not complete but the steel was done and ready for a dry-in roof. That’s weird, but know where as weird as when you have an opposing slope coming back toward the ladder. My strangest one was with a ladder set up inside a huge cathedral ceiling church, trying to change a light bulb mounded on one of the beams. Very similar set-up to what your photo is, with the top of the ladder resting on a 6” beam. Every flex in the ladder cause the top of the ladder to slide down the beam about 3”, and coupled with the slope coming back to you, it was very unnerving.

Aaron B- I have that happen about once or twice a year. I do not know why. I also do not know why I wake up in the middle of the night scare that I am not able to work and support my family. Maybe these two fears are linked?

Peter- Strange but I “locked up” in a cherry picker, I was fitting lead flashing on the front pediment of a listed building about fifty feet up. On the third or fourth ride up I don’t know what happened but the basket (complete with basket case) was lowered using the controls from the ground. I had another one thirty foot or so from the ground but no wall in front, it was into a center valley on a barrel vault roof. Must have been climbing up and for three days on the tied off ladder when the “Freeze: set it, back down had a smoke and went up again. I wad glad the customer wasn’t around just my own crew and a team of painters, I climbed that ladder like a complete amateur but after that no problem? Maybe it’s the brain telling us to take care. Mike NZ, On that one I wouldn’t go up without the ladder footed or against the wheel of the van, small comfort I know but every little helps.

LEAKMON- Mike NZ, When I was a PUP, I got on anything basically anyway could, had no fear and the though of falling was absurd to me. As I aged things needed to be more and more secure. Could it be we cherish life more as we age, or just get smarter?

DR.ROOF- Back in the early 80’s we got a call from a church saying that they had some wind damage. 2 roofing companies before us refused to work cause it was too high for them. Being young and cocky, I told them we would fix it for them GUARANTEED. They said bring a long ladder…I loaded up our 40 footer and off we went to take care of business. When we got there, we found that our 40 footer was about 20 ft short of the eaves trough. So we rented a 60 footer. Put that one up…3 ft short still. So we put the ladder in the back of the truck box…6 inches short. We stacked 4 bundles of shingles in the box of the truck and put the ladder on the shingles. Made the trough with a few inches to spare. You wanna talk about midway ladder bounce…I was ***** my pants all the way up and all the way down. My helper at the time, who still works for me. Tells that story to anyone who will listen. I think that was a top 10 moment for him.

MIKENZ- MikeH, in answer to your question about the angle of that setback, YEP that’s when things went all upside down, it felt like the ladder was pulling away from the top, although of course it wasn’t, the physics of it would show that the higher I got up the more pressure the ladder would have on the edge. I did go to the top, but I was very close to the face of the ladder, and tried not to make any sudden movements. I should have wedged the bottom of the ladder against the van; I have done this before…must have had brain failure this time.

EGG- I can handle any situation until the point that my legs or arms start shaking uncontrollably. At that point I lose the confidence in my ability to prevail. I can live with fear, but not without confidence. I do not do technical climbing, but I froze up in the mountains on a 12/12 snow chute that led to a 2000-foot drop. We had to chop footsteps in with heavy packs on, and for some reason it hit me halfway across. Why did my mind decide it was easier to return the half way backing up that go forwards the rest of the way? No idea. It’s all in the mind. Pushing a full wheelbarrow of rock across a 30 ft. Aluminum plank that starts wangling back and forth is not in the mind. You can stop and back up or ditch the load for very good reason. When you are pushing the limits, you are never quite sure whether it’s in your mind or very good reason I hate being scare, but once I get there, I find it spell binding. Then again, we would like to be remembered for being brave, not for being stupid. There’s no way to avoid the dilemma. Great to be alive.

ROOFSCAPE- Back when a hurricane Isabel hit Washington DC we were servicing a very large apartment chain along the east coast (55 properties at the time). One property of their that got hit the hardest was in Springfield VA. Immediately all the 60” or greater lifts were rented all over the surrounding area. One of the repairs I needed to do was on a 65’ chimney at the end of the complex on a hill. The fascia/rake board off the side of the chimney and the renter were sustaining mega water damage. During a light drizzle we setup the 60’ ladder. 2 of my best guys called me over there cause they tried to climb it but were too scare. So I grabbed my belt and started to climb. Around 30’ up it seemed like it was 100’ due to the steep drop-ff on the hill. I had no choice but the start the 2-foot shuffle (2 feet on each wrung). As I got to the top I finished pulling the board off (5’-6’). I had the new board pre-nailed and hanging on my belt. I set it and began to nail when the ladder started to bounce and slide to the right. I got 3 of the 5 nails in before the ladder was 6’’ from the edge of the chimney. Even though my guys were holding it I got down and moved it back into place. I got back up there and finished it although I was scared to death. I was Airborne in the Army but have never been so scared in my life.

SCOOTER- Ladders never bothered me much, been on them all my life. I’m not real sure, but I think I was conceived on a ladder.