Nails in the butt joints!

We have gotten nearly double the normal rainfall amounts for our area so far this year and i have been called to way too many repairs where the problem was nail heads just so happened to fall out right in or near the center where dimensionals butt together causing small leaks during the really heavy downpours. If there happens to be just an ever so slight unlevelness in the same spot its worse. And of course the lower the roof slope its worse. I've always been a big proponent of dimensionals over 3-tabs but i dont know what to think about this lately. Anyone else out there seeing this happen?

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What RG says. One big problem is that not very many people want to work anymore; they just want to make money and sub everything out...to the lowest bidder. You get what you pay for!

I don't disagree that they can be installed correctly as they are, however like i say the new era of nail gunners WON"T! Dimensional shingles could and should be made much better and then this would not be a problem. We could go back and forth about it forever but NOTHING will change unless they design the shingles to make up for this! Basically they need to be more "idiot proof". lol

When they first came out with the Timberline Shingles in the Early 70's the nail strip was wider and the shingles were stacked in the bundles in piles of 9 with two facing up and one down because they were so thick in the middle they would almost roll off the roof.

They were all hand laid up too. When they invented the in-line laminator, they had to make the bottom part of the shingle exactly half the width of the whole shingle so that they would package correctly. The trick is in proper placement of the fasteners. You HAVE to take your time and set the gun correctly to nail them in the right spot, or they will delaminate. Willie, I believe that most of the problems you are speakingof are caused by the installers tilting the gun to the right and left when they are nailing the ends of the shingles. That makes a hole for the water to run into, Again, it is installers error.

Yep that would solve the problem Tinner. If the manufacturers would make the shingles to overlap say 3 inches or so instead of butt together. Also they need to either make dimensionals in one piece or make the bottom piece bigger vertically, thereby increasing the nail placement area because im also seeing a lot of dimensional shingles coming unglued on steep roofs ,10-12 an twelves, where just the bottom half/piece of shingle comes off due to defective glue strip. The nail placement line is just so thin that, once again, with the new era of nail gunners, they are having a hard time to make the nail go through both layers and at the same time not show in the exposure! They need to address these issues because at todays prices shinlges are a rip off with these problems. A homeowner can just about get a metal roof for the same price these days.

Contrary to some folk's beliefs, I asked the various manufacturers if it was OK to Dutch-lap those. THey all said "Yes, it's no different than weaving a valley". I have several low pitch dimensional roofs dutch-lapped and even shortened exposures. Some are over 15 years old and no problems. I even told a neighbor how to do it. He did his own several years ago. 3/12. No problems there either. It's just harder to do because the measurements keep changing from shingle to shingle, and you have to pay attention to nail placement. Harder than butting! B)

I've fixed dozens of leaks where the nail was not exactly in the butt joint, but within an inch or two.( sometimes farther ) Most all of these are shallow pitched roofs from a 3/12 to a 6/12 and the place where the nail was close to the opening where the shingles butt together also had some slight ( or sometimes beyond slight ) unlevelness due to the wood decking being unlevel where two pieces butt together. Whether it was plywood or planks. When the torrential downpours come, with the amount of water running down the roof, some of it pools in the hump created by the unlevel wood tracking left or right after the hump fills up and reaching the nail heads. ( sometimes even reaching the butt joint where two shingles meet causing a big leak ). Of course when strong winds are involved pushing the water horizontally, the water will make it even further. Eventually the nail heads and the stem just under them begin to rust, therefore ultimately making the nail itself somewhat smaller and letting the water into the attic, where it once again pools and begins to work its way through the sheetrock in due time. Usually causing only tiny spots on the ceiling. When i see those tiny spots and then walk outside and look at the roof directly above them and its just wide open field, I know whats going on before i get the ladder out. I repaired two more today that were the same thing. :dry:

See it here too. Sad.

Watch the guys run the nail guns.; They set down the gun and align the shingle with both hands....Then, they grab the gun and just run it across the shingle nailing it anywhere it happens to hit. You don't make you time nailing you idiots, you make the time setting the shingle.

Almost all tear offs I do the nails are no where near where they are supposed to be. With three tabs it was almost fool proof. shingles company's should put big red dots where they are to be nailed. But you got to care first. Just check on a bid I put in, here is my numbers 22 square new work,2 story's,10/12 pitch, to include ice& water shield on eaves and dry in on day of sheathing because it was 2X6 t&g finished on the inside and could not get wet. Supply and install 22square of 30 year timberline shingles,edging, flash a large copula, 3 stink pipes, and 50 ft of shingle over vent using timber tex caps. My price $6300.00 Theirs $3750.00 Were do you think those guy will put the nails. next job 37 square tear off two story's, 10/12 pitch, only one place to get close for dump truck,No easy access to rear of home. 30 ft. valley,60 ft step flashing's 75 ft. shingle over vent, 30 year timberline shingles with timber tex caps. Felt and ice& water shield on eaves and valley My price $14800.00 Their price $8800.00

Yep willie see it all the time the SOBs dont care where the nails go or they just dont know any better but its real common around here.We got a call to repair a roof recently i asked how old he said last year it was installed by a national storm chaser cant get him back we estimated to remove the whole slope its gafelk shingles and were not fighting that seal on some unlicensed unisured hack from out of state.We have about three local roofers who are all in the same family whos roofs all are like that every time i climb one i find nails in the butt joints.

Well, Personally craftesman i haven't read a shingle wrapper since 1984 and if i still needed to read directions after 25 years of roofing daily, I would find another trade to get invovled in. B.T.W. Me or my crews are not the ones installing the roofs where i have seen this. lol But anywho what im saying is "new" customers are calling for leak repairs and when i get to the job to do an estimate, The spots on the ceiling are directly below wide open areas of roof with no penetrations or anything. The way dimensionals are racked combined with the aggressive roofers of todays era, this is what i am starting to see as leak sources. It does not happen with 3-tabs as they are nailed on the ends and over the keys. For whatever reason, I didnt see this problem in the past. Its something thats has just recently surfaced.

dosen't that fancy writing and pitcuers on the wrappers tell you where to nail. it's not that hard to follow the directions. is it?

That means that they are not paying attention to where they are nailing. Nail guns are great if you use them properly. Most people don't!