Mad at Hail! So mad I could kick a pipe jack!

Hello guys and gals.. It's me, Charisse.. the non-roofer who can't stay away from roofing. In the past the members of this forum have given me great feedback and I appreciate you all! I have a fresh frustration and I need a fresh vent (human, turtle, ridge, doesn't matter :P

The question that faces you today: drawing from your experience as a roofer do you believe that 1-inch or 1.5-inch hail can cause a roof to leak? If so, how long would it take? I understand that velocity plays a role, as well. I know how a shingle is constructed and how large hail stones can shoot straight through the plywood like they do in Hail Valley, but some roofers have told me that smaller stones, like quarter and half dollar sized, can take years to actually wear down the granules and cause damage.

I'm asking because my neighbor's roof was hit by 1 to 1.5 inch hail 4 months ago, and a roofing salesperson has convinced him that hail is the reason his roof is leaking. He has two or three issues in different spots. I am encouraging him to get a genuine ROOFER, not a roof-peddling self-proclaimed insurance specialist, to examine and diagnose his problem. I believe he has wind damage, and I highly doubt that the smaller kind of hail we get in Louisiana has produced roof damage.

Master minds, please weigh in! And thank you in advance.

For all the BS thrown at the Insurance Company's some rightly so ,much not. In 1991 Hurricane Andrew tore thru the Miami Dade County area and wrecked every thing in site. Soon after that the codes in Florida changed for the better. The Insurance Industry the engine behind the changes. There was a lot of bitching and whinnying from contractors facing the changes. Today the same codes that were seen as draconian and oppressive are used to legitimize the very same business's. Interesting. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I am from the hail capital of America. We don't worry about hurricanes here although we do get the occasional tornado. Cities don't inspect decks here unless the whole deck is being replaced.

Last month I did a reroof on a nice house built in '93. Tore the roof and old felt off. 7/16" OSB was fastened with 1 1/2" - 1/2" crown staples. The staples that hit the rafter were maybe 15 per sheet. The butt ends did the two legged shuffle with one staple leg in each side. This is typical for production construction here. APA recommends minimum 33 fasteners per sheet. I could not in good conscience shingle this house without renailing the whole deck. I basically ate the cost. Most roofers, if not all around here, don't even tear off the old felt.

It is required, when removing a roof the deck is to be inspected. The fastener type and pattern of the fasteners must be correct and up to code. 8 penny ring shank nails are code and required in the proper nail pattern. This must be done with every roof tear off to meet code here. The 2nd water barrier is the same . Proper material and sufficient nails to meet code are required.. Each procedure has a permit number and or house address painted on each slope and pictures taken of each slope. A document is submitted with the pictures signed and motorized by the roofing. The contractor states this has been done. Contractor sys he personally saw this. It becomes an official document submitted with the permit . B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Part of a successful roofing business is knowing the manufacture spec and code. Along with that is marketing ,education etc. nothing wrong with information to your and potential customers. Protect your community and the roofing profession as a whole. It is a long hard struggle with many rewards if handled properly. You don't have to use the negative tactics of the stormers. Be aware they have good ideas on taking your potential customers from you and they do and will.Use some of those ideas + your skill as a competent tradesman. That is what I'm talking about. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

CIAK Said: T I suspect you keep up with job cost and overhead % of how much you make per job etc.

Yes, I keep up with everything and I just barely make a living. But if the alternative is to adopt the storm chasing business model, I want no part in it.

What do you do when you tear off a roof and discover the decking is barely tacked down? I nail it down proper and hope I collect enough to cover the cost of the nails. 99.9% of the roofers out there would not even know it ain't nailed down.

The year is 2013 not 1900. The business climate of the world is centered around money. Now if you enjoy roofing even love it that is one thing. Professional roofing contractors would love to hire someone like you natty. I admire the tradesmen. In the world of 2013 it is better to know the business, not just bang nails if you are to run a successful enterprise. I suspect you keep up with job cost and overhead % of how much you make per job etc. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

CIAK Said: Roofing is more than pounding nails.

Not really. A roofer is like a surgeon. He knows where to cut and he knows where to stitch. He takes care of a problem. A surgeon is supposed to do his work without regard to money concerns. You either need an operation or you don't.

Marketing and business are another profession. Insurance is taking over the roofing business just like medical insurance has taken over medicine. Surgeons have to ask permission from the almighty money managers to do an operation. What we have today in roofing is the administrators harking for more medical services and the hospital janitors doing the operating. Insurance companies don't care because govt has guaranteed to them 20% profits.

I have maintained and advocate marketing to the local roofing. Education for your company and your customers before and after a storm is paramount to success . Roofing is more than pounding nails. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Old School Said: Becomes nothing but a racket? It has changed a lot in the last 50 years for sure.

Maybe it has always been a racket and I just didn't know better. I live in North Texas which has been said to be the hail capital of America. I think back, and I don't think roofs were tore off until the 80s. I remember tearing off 4 and 5 layer roofs all of the time in the 80s on old houses. That means they must have got a new roof every 7 or 8 years. Then most of my work was lay overs over 8 and 10 year old crappy wood roofs. I was one of the few roofers who actually prepared the wood roof properly for a lay over. Most of these layovers other roofers did were so bad, insurance finally had to pay for redecks in the 90s. That is when the storm chaser business model took over. -Get insurance to pay for it and cover the deductible even at 1 and 2 %. Now, if any home owner pays for his own roof, he is a fool. Blame the crappy roof on a storm and get insurance to pay for it. No wonder I hate the roofing business.

OLE Willie Said: Nearly 30 years of roofing and i dont recall ever seeing hail make a roof leak.

We had a hail storm of biblical proportions last year in the Lakewood area of Dallas. It completely destroyed the old historic clay tile roofs in the area. Cars and vegetation in the area were also beat up. It made for a great news story. I roofed a few houses in the same neighborhood back in the 90s. Except for a broken skylight and the Z-ridge, you really had to strain to see where the hail hit.

Rockydog Said: Why wait for the storm chaser to steal it away from you.

Which is exactly why the roofing business is nothing but a racket.

Hustling opportunist + care free insurance + shoddy quest workers and day laborers = racket

And when the local guys adopt the storm chasing business model, you get nothing but a racket.

North Texas is the hail capital of America and home owner insurance is the most expensive here. Sure we get some damaging hail, but far too often, perfectly good roofs are being torn off and replaced by incompetent hustlers simply because homeowners don't have a clue about roofing other than whether or not it leaks.

And when those roofs are roofs I installed without a flaw 10 and 15 years ago, it makes me wonder why I even give a care.

CIAK Said: I have been here in the New Orleans area for near two weeks looking at hail damage from soft ball size hail. Blows holes in roofs making them leak thats a fact. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Softball sized, yes. Skeptical, however, on the aforementioned leak being caused by the considerablely smaller hail. Sounds to me like a salesman going for the gusto.

I have been here in the New Orleans area for near two weeks looking at hail damage from soft ball size hail. Blows holes in roofs making them leak that's a fact. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Nearly 30 years of roofing and i don't recall ever seeing hail make a roof leak.

We are all peddler's. Roofing is a way of life not a racket. Perhaps a racket for the storm chaser. There is nothing wrong with a roofer who can identify storm damage avail himself of the opportunity to make an increase in the amount of work he is doing. SOMEBODY has to do it. Why wait for the storm chaser to steal it away from you.