Insur. co. do not care

Here is proof that insurance companies do not care about their clients: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20140103-state-farm-farmers-allstate-raising-home-insurance-rates.ece

They just raise their rates. If you are unfortunate enough to live within a storm or hail belt, you will probably run into one of the many "insurance claim specialists". Your adjustor and roofing CONtractor will probably be a know-nothing opportunist/carpetbagger and your roofer will be a third world slap on artist.

Catastrophic hail is rare. If a CONtractor offers a "free roof", slam the door in his face. If they install the roof in a day, worry. Take your time and spend your money wisely.

theroofmedic Said: EVERYONE has to understand that your insurance policy is an agreement of shared risk.

I agree with everything you said but this. Insurance under the current system is financiers betting they can collect more in premiums than they pay in claims. Then govt regulations guarantee their profits. So there is little incentive to reduce costs.

Shared risk would be when anyone experienced a damage, we take up a collection.

Hail damage in North Texas is such a grey area and there is such claim abuse that we need a whole new system. Maybe something like a hail damage savings account.

Compare to Obamacare. All Obamacare does is guarantee the profits of insurance companies. It does nothing to reduce costs.

Anyhow........... I remember seeing a investigative documentary about 15 or 20 years ago about the method that insurance companies use to settle claims.

If you had 100 claims to settle it went as follows:

Basically the bottom line was that they lowball everybody and 65% of the claims accepted that offer. They then make some minor concessions and another 25% of the original amount accept so they are left with 10% of the original claims.

Of the 10 claims left, the insurance company would fight these, tooth and nail, to the point of financially breaking some of them and actually settling the claim for less than the initial lowball offer and others they will finally settle for a meager increase to avoid going to court.

The report claimed that only about 5% of claims were settled for actual loss involved.

The thing I found most interesting was that there was a 1% that received more than actual loss involved. This was the person that was able to hold out to the end and they had to sign a confidentiality agreement not to disclose their actual payout. The report said a lot of these 1% people were later used in the companies future advertising campaigns showing how they treated the people they insured.

I don't know if these statistics hold true for today but it changed my whole outlook on the insurance industry and how they settle claims.

Being in both your positions as a roofing contractor and property adjuster for many years now. I have been following your comments with interest. Most of what is coming forth has a veiled ego centered self promotion chest pounding from two competitors. Most of the facts out side the bravado and chest beating have been good for the most part correct. Believe me I toned down my conversation about much of what your presenting. I could write thousands of words about this, but I don't really want to today. People's positions on this subject are set in so hard that it doesn't really matter what facts you put before them. Your comments IMO would be better served if you could stop punching each other. Nuff said. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Tim- WOW! No pissing match on my side. I think you are REALLY taking things out of context. I thought we were just discussing some topics and now you're insulting and even threatening me? I don't think I have "challenged" your level of experience (I don't even know what that means anyway) nor have I purposely tried to discredit your countless accomplishments; there is no need for that.

In fact, I am very grateful for what your dad taught me. It has pole-vaulted my career, I was able to sell my business, move into insurance adjusting & thermal imaging, plus have a less stressful life. I have time to work on my website that helps property owners find good and honest roofers in DFW, (Look for Google AdSense on it soon), writing my books, working on my videos and other ventures. So let your dad know I how much I appreciate his help and training, (even though I thought he was crazy to get on some of those high roofs with me). Meeting your family, while challenging at times was one of the best things that happened to me, so easy Tim and take care!

I apologize if you took offense at my warning about getting your adjusters license with the new law and the conflict of interest with adjusting on roofs you are selling. I was just trying to give you a heads up on the new law. (apparently according to your last post "Adjusters & Roofers- and the Law" you are rethinking my warning)

While I appreciate your 33 years of your roofing experience, there may be room for those of us who may only have a couple of decades under our belt. We all have to start somewhere... as you are currently starting your learning curve with foam. The good news by the time I reach your age I will have that much more experience. ;)

That is not necessarily accurate, It depends- I have an adjusters license to be an adjuster- it also benefits me to know and understand policy, what's covered and what's not, what a insurance company will make a stand on and what they won't and understand the law of each state I work.. To me, merrily having an adjuster license for a "parchment" is just a waste of time and money. But the knowledge that comes with a license, degree or certification can be valuable. For example, some West Texas cities are adopting the IBC that requires that any decking that is compromised must be replaced. This is a challenge for "code up dates" to an insurance claim and must be presented to the insurance adjuster, (they need to be educated). Another example if a contractor, is not aware of this and "restores" a roof, he or she can be liable for a complete roof replacement.

On the flip side when I am not adjusting I sell roofs. The knowledge from training, education, degrees, certifications, plus being a licensed and bonded roofing contractor not only gives the property owner confidence in my ability; it makes the entire process much smoother. I understand and the insurance adjuster's view, the engineer's, policy reference, the property owner's and insurance carrier's interests. Plus, be able to estimate accurately and not just rely on Xactomate.

As you are aware, I just sell, I don't install anymore I refer out to multiple contractors, which gives them the confidence that I am not just another roofing sales guy. I don't have the headaches of actually roofing, running a crew anymore, carrying workman's comp, liability insurance (other than my E&O insurance), etc., but make a commission, everyone is happy and to me it is the best of both worlds!

theroofmedic Said: Since being trained in adjusting and insurance policy I better understand the insurance industry. EVERYONE has to understand that your insurance policy is an agreement of shared risk. Filing a claim is not like winning the lottery. The first monies paid are the deductibles. My personal opinion, (for what its worth) is that dishonest and greedy contractors have perpetuated the insurance racket. I know these are strong words but I have been on both sides- in my first year of adjusting I have been appalled at roofers, General contractors and PAs and their greed to fleece insurance companies.... FREE MONEY! This type of business practice makes it hard for the good and honest contractors.

Many property owners are talked into filing claims that arent there or have been erroneously promised a free roof by these predatory contractors. I have written a book on this subject, hopefully it will educate property owners and help stop this viscous cycle and allow the good honest contractors a chance to expose the bad ones. BTW, it is available for free download on my website.

Your scenario of Joe blow Shoe Store is valid if it is a ACV policy- If your customer has standard commercial RCV policy than your customer will not get his depreciation.

Just having an adjusters license will be mute unless you become an expert on policy. Having a license in anything makes you responsible for the laws and regulations that govern that particular license. Having that adjuster's license now opens you up legally... because you know.

If you want my humble opinion take that 33 years of experience and locate those building owners with ACV polices... That is the gold mine with roof restoration, that is where you can really help commercial property owners.

I was retained by an commercial underwriter to put ACV Values on their ACV property portfolio. This is the exciting part for you Tim- It is a WIN WIN for both a commercial property owner with an ACV insurance policy and a contractor who offers your type of roof restoration. $$$$

Just remember under new Texas law: Prohibitive Conduct (sections Sec. 4101.251 & 163) As a contractor you can not represent an insured- Only a licensed PA can do that. The function of a contractor is to provide a scope of work and expertise of the scope of work if required.

This law has empowered many PA's. Under Texas insurance code: participate directly or indirectly in the reconstruction or engage in any other activities that may reasonably be construed as presenting a conflict of interest. Which they are zeroing in on the contractors. EVERYONE remembers the case: Reyelts vs. Lon Smith Roofing and Construction

Yes I agree with Tim I've been roofing Southern Louisiana since 91 and I've seen very little evidence of adjusters paying for damages that weren't there. After gustav in 08 we seen quite the opposite on a lot of claims, I would say my experience is most claims are grossly underpaid. We have to deal with the adjusters inside or outside to get pricing up to acceptable settlement exactimate is manipulated by most carriers to their advantage. Covering deductibles is an issue I cant stand they don't pay enough to begin with,our state is now advertising covering deductibles is insurance fraud. Problem is how do you prove it? Our state licensing board has come out on the issue also and you can have your license revoked but it takes proof and that's hard to prove unless a homeowner is mad at the contractor but then the contractor can say hey he paid me in cash.

Since being trained in adjusting and insurance policy I better understand the insurance industry. EVERYONE has to understand that your insurance policy is an agreement of shared risk. Filing a claim is not like winning the lottery. The first monies paid are the deductibles. My personal opinion, (for what it's worth) is that dishonest and greedy contractors have perpetuated the insurance racket. I know these are strong words but I have been on both sides- in my first year of adjusting I have been appalled at roofers, General contractors and PA's and their greed to fleece insurance companies.... FREE MONEY! This type of business practice makes it hard for the good and honest contractors.

Many property owners are talked into filing claims that aren't there or have been erroneously promised a free roof by these predatory contractors. I have written a book on this subject, hopefully it will educate property owners and help stop this viscous cycle and allow the good honest contractors a chance to expose the bad ones. BTW, it is available for free download on my website.

I came from an area where insurance was not an issue- I had to find a roofing need, present the property owner with their issues, sell the property owner, do the work and get paid by the property owner. When I sold and semi retired to North Texas I went into adjusting... A whole different paradigm! This is where I was exposed to dishonest contractors, slick roofing sales people, poorly trained property adjusters and hate to say it... property owners who don't want to pay for their roof and feel the insurance company should pay for EVERYTHING including their deductible.

In most states, it is illegal for a contractor to absorb, "eat" or offer an "advertising allowance" (if they stick a sign in their yard or promise to use their roof in an advertisement), in lieu of the insured's deductible. Many times, double billing goes on which is complete insurance fraud. In Texas, this is rampant! Insurance companies are getting wiser and smarter and before long I think there will be more prosecution of dishonest contractors.

Roofguy Said:

If youre refusing to suggest your customers file a hail claim because of a personal hangup you have with the whole process, all youre doing is insuring that your customer pays a proportionately higher percentage of the profit that goes into the carriers pocket.

On the contrary- I suggest that ALL my clients file a claim if they have a roof problem. Under the current system in North Texas, you are a fool to pay out of pocket anything but your deductible. However, those who get the full life expectancy out of their roof are in a crap shoot whether they get a roof paid. Just because everyone else is getting a new roof every 7 years, doesn't make it prudent.

I lament what the roofing business has become. It is full of hustlers and slap on artists. No one cares about anything but getting a piece of the vicious circle.

Do you want to see where Obamacare is going to take us? Look at the insurance/roofing racket in North Texas.

At 10% more our rate will go from $59 to $65 a month.