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GAF/ELK shingle weight? Anyone else heard of this? Need info ASAP!

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May 25, 2009 at 9:22 a.m.

brandon0805

:S>>>

June 6, 2009 at 9:21 p.m.

Roofsrus1

They used to go by a system where it was known as a "batch weight" and the shingles had to weigh a certain batch weight of so many pounds but not more than say 240 pounds.>>>

June 1, 2009 at 5:06 p.m.

CIAK

You can read the report I mentioned goggle

HAIL DAMAGE TO ASPHALT ROOF SHINGLES

Ed was correct it was the engineering co of......

Timothy P. Marshall*, Richard F. Herzog, and Scott J. Morrison Haag Engineering Co. Dallas, Texas>>>

May 30, 2009 at 1:55 p.m.

CIAK

Your independent reports sponsored by the Manufacture for the most part agree with the report I was looking at produced by the engineering firm. No granules it is a problem and is compromised>>>

May 29, 2009 at 10:32 a.m.

egg

Nice work, Ed. You are the man!>>>

May 28, 2009 at 6:53 p.m.

Ed The Roofer

Damn, here I go with my book report again.

Here are some other key comments made by various organizations, including Haag Engineering, regarding hail damage and "Cosmetic Only" damage.

Ed

The Property Loss Research Bureau, (PLRB); and various hail damage assessment protocol publications authored by Haag Engineering Company, (Haag); and by Jim D. Koontz & Associates Roof Consultants, (Koontz), and Asphalt-Shingle Roofing, published by Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association, (ARMA); and the National Roofing Contractors Association, (NRCA), from Proceedings of the Fourth International Symposium on Roofing Technology, “Hail damage to roofing: Assessment and classification, and also from the Midwest Roofing Contractors Association, (MRCA), roof care 101, Storm Damage.” We utilized the methods of analysis as instructed by the manual published by the PLRB, “ Hail Damage To Residential Roofing,” and the aforementioned engineering and consulting firms and roofing trade associations, as a guide to authenticate the recent hail damage on the “xxxxxxx” home and roof.

Assessment Procedure, Identification, and Hail Damage Definitions:

“The assessment procedure is based on determining whether there is hail-caused damage and if so, quantifying the amount of damage on the roof. The first step is to inspect the roof system and differentiate hail damage from non-hail damage. Most systems are susceptible to damage resulting from the impact of hailstones falling at high velocities. The extent of the damage depends on the nature of the roof system and other factors, such as age and surface temperature at time of impact, may also come into play.” (Haag Engineering)

“Catastrophic failure damage is very clear and easy to observe. This would be a complete fracture/puncture through the installed residential roofing product.” (Koontz)

“Other types of damage, however, are not so obvious. Indentations may not fracture, but may result in some aesthetic loss, or in some potential loss of performance in years to come.” (Koontz)

In some cases, an indentation can occur, and the fracture in either the reinforcement mat, (fiberglass or organic), is not readily observable. In the case of the organic or fiberglass shingle, desaturation of the shingle may be required to observe the damage.” (Koontz)

Following are various related definitions of “ Hail-Caused Damage to Asphalt Shingles.”

“The effects of hail damage often can be readily seen, but visual observation of roof surfaces often does not reveal serious damage. This may include weakening of the granular adhesion, fractures, punctures and the like. Damage to the substrate can also occur. In such cases, testing is required to determine the extent of the damage of the roof systems components. Unfortunately, some damage may not be apparent until after many months or years of exposure. If substantial damage has occurred, the roof systems waterproofing integrity is at risk and its service life threatened.” (NRCA)

Functional damage to shingle roofing have been defined as: “Morrison (1999) defined damage to roofing as a diminution of water-shedding capability or a reduction in the expected long-term life of the roofing material. Marshall and Herzog (1999) more specifically defined functional hail-caused damage to asphalt shingles as punctures, tears, or fractures (bruises) in the shingle mats. Shingle bruises are an indentation with fracture in the mat that feels soft like that of an apple bruise. The bruise is usually obvious as granules are also dislodged from the impact area exposing the asphaltic mat. In some instances, granules are dislodged from the shingles to expose bitumen without shingle mat rupture. This represents a potential loss of expected service life.” (Haag Engineering)

“Severe damage, where the asphalt coating and surfacing granules have been removed from numerous small areas, but where the shingles are not

May 28, 2009 at 6:46 p.m.

Ed The Roofer

Also, anyone who wants to know about hail damage and what else it can be, besides hail damage, this is a pretty good article by a different engineering firm.

http://www.prugarinc.com/Prugar_shingle_damage_evaluation.pdf

http://www.prugarinc.com/Prugar_shingle_damage_evaluation.pdf

Ed>>>

May 28, 2009 at 6:44 p.m.

Ed The Roofer

Here is a view from another source, not on the payroll of the Insurance Companies.

Ed

The Effects of Hail Damage on Asphalt Shingles Roofing Division Technical Services Bulletin / Bulletin Number: RD - 03/03/03 From: Owens Corning

Message: When an Owens Corning roof has been exposed to a hailstorm severe enough to cause granules to be dislodged from the surface of the shingles (in spots large enough which expose the asphalt), the roof has been compromised. The colored granules which are placed on the surface of the shingle to serve two purposes:

They provide an aesthetically pleasing product, and They protect the underlying asphalt from exposure to the sun. Prolonged exposure to sun causes asphalt to deteriorate. This is the reason that a hail damaged roof will tend to fail prematurely.

Heavy hail damage is obvious because of the indentations in the shingle. When the surface damage of the shingle is not visible, look for indentations on vents, ridge vents, siding, or any other softer metal objects that may show impact. The effects on the shingle may not be apparent for about a year. At this time, circular areas of granules will fall off the shingle. This is often called spalling. What has occurred is that the impact of the hailstone has broken or weakened the bond between the granules and the asphalt. After a year or so of weathering, the granules fall off the shingle in the circular area of impact. With granules missing, the sunlight (UV) quickly attacks the asphalt and the maximum performance of the shingle has been compromised. The Owens Corning Limited Warranty on Roofing Shingles is void when shingles are damaged due to the evidence of hailstorms under all conditions stated above. >>>

May 27, 2009 at 10:03 p.m.

CIAK

I have been on another assignment and out of touch till now. I'm flying to Nashville tomorrow and then back to Baton Rouge Sat. The study can be goggled at the engineering site I believe Ed posted . I was just mentioning the weight issue . You can read what you want into the study depending on your disposition . Conspiracy are interesting. Not always and almost never right IMO Conspiracy theory can and are dangerous to a society as a whole in a lot of instances , take this example of the Nazis and on of the way they were voted into power . The Nazis were helped to power by the conspiracy theory known as the Dolchstosslegende (the stab-in-the-back myth) by which Germany's defeat in the Great War was explained in terms not of the military debacle on the Western Front battlefields in 1918 but rather the treachery of Jews, bankers, socialists, trade unionists, pacifists, intellectuals and defeatists at home. Hitler and Goebbels trumpeted this absurd conspiracy theory until it was believed by a majority of Germans, who voted accordingly.>>>

May 27, 2009 at 6:06 p.m.

Miscreant

CIAK Said: In most three tab shingles . 1/3 the weight of the shingle is granule. There was a study done. Here is some of that study pertinent to this topic . In order to determine how many granules, if any, must be removed in order to affect the service life or water shedding ability of the shingle, the authors firm a granule loss study on asphalt shingles. Varying quantities of granules were removed with a wire brush from new, three-tab, glass-fiber mat shingles. The shingles then were exposed naturally to the weather in Dallas, Texas for a period of ten years. The quantities of granules removed were none (control), and approximately 6, 15, 45, and 70 percent of the total granules on the shingles. Another shingle was installed upside down such that the asphaltic mat was exposed to the weather. The shingles were installed conventionally over a plywood deck on a 4:12 pitch that faced south. The shingles were examined at intervals throughout the ten year period as well as at the conclusion of the study.

A test that approximated nothing (varying degrees of wire brushed shingles) to prove what's already known(shingles need granules)?

As I recall the study was scrubbed due to the researchers also installing themselves upside down to a 4/12 pitch Southern exposure roof in Dallas.

The only bit of solid research came early on when one of the scientists observed, "Wow! It's hot as f**k up here!"

>>>

May 27, 2009 at 2:55 p.m.

hatrick

Hey CIAK, I was reading with great interest and holding my breath waiting for the results of the study. What happened? Or do the authors of the study have ADD like me and just get bored with the process and didn'tfinish it? All the bald spots I've seen deteriate the roof much faster. That's why I tell people not to worry about Liken, the mold like stuff. If they pull it off the shingle becomes bald and deteriates very quickly.>>>

May 27, 2009 at 1:43 a.m.

egg

The courteous thing, at least from a scholarly standpoint, would be to include what the results of the study were.>>>

May 26, 2009 at 8:45 p.m.

OLE Willie

MUCH. MUCH MORE!>>>

May 26, 2009 at 8:38 p.m.

Ed The Roofer

When an Engineering Company, such as Haag Engineering, continually lines their pockets from the insurance industry, don't you find some of their results a bit suspect? The inmates are writing the rules for the asylum in this instance.

From anyones personal experience, when they have seen asphalt or fiberglass shingles that had completely bare spots entrenched in the exposed portion of the shingle, would it be accurate to say that the exposed asphalt portion of the shingle suffered dramatically more deterioration that the other areas where the granule covering remained intact?

Ed>>>

May 25, 2009 at 2:49 p.m.

CIAK

In most three tab shingles . 1/3 the weight of the shingle is granule. There was a study done. Here is some of that study pertinent to this topic . In order to determine how many granules, if any, must be removed in order to affect the service life or water shedding ability of the shingle, the authors' firm a granule loss study on asphalt shingles. Varying quantities of granules were removed with a wire brush from new, three-tab, glass-fiber mat shingles. The shingles then were exposed naturally to the weather in Dallas, Texas for a period of ten years. The quantities of granules removed were none (control), and approximately 6, 15, 45, and 70 percent of the total granules on the shingles. Another shingle was installed upside down such that the asphaltic mat was exposed to the weather. The shingles were installed conventionally over a plywood deck on a 4:12 pitch that faced south. The shingles were examined at intervals throughout the ten year period as well as at the conclusion of the study.>>>

May 25, 2009 at 10:36 a.m.

CIAK

The weight of the shingle is only relevant to the size and weight of the Granules. It is not more asphalt , fiberglass mat thickness etc. The granules are coarser or finer, that is it. Nothing to write home about Heck to make matters heavier they put the granules on the back side of some shingles . I'm not sure if this helps the longevity or not . Some one with many more years experience than I have could shed some light on this subject . Hey may be JET could chime in ????????????? :S :side: :silly: :woohoo: :side: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:>>>


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