Employee pilfering

Padding hours-

As a larger operation, in the past, we had systems/management in-place, so this phenomena wasn't much, (if any), of an issue.....However, with a very small operation, the employees tend to be on the honor system.

Last week I decided to keep accurate accounts of a particular two man crew. To cut-to-the-chase; I have 42.5 hrs, (40 hrs + 2.5 OT), for each man.....Course, they come up with 50 hrs.

I've laid-out a detailed sheet, depicting each day & relevant events, to debunk their accounting of hours. I also laid-out how the 15 add'l hrs each week, turns into a $35,958 expense for me, over the course of a yr.

I plan of confronting then Monday first-thing. I'm thinking of the honest/straight-forward approach. It will go something like this;

Do you think I'm simply wealthy/"rich" and generous so that I can simply spread the wealth? Do you think I'm stupid? Do I not pay you enough? (BTW; They're paid very well - always a bit above what the competitors pay). Do you consider yourselves thieves? Please explain to me why you feel you must provide false/erroneous information on your time cards.

The guy who taught me roofing said you either go real small or real big, anywhere in the middle is just a mess of problems that don't add up to much more than a small, efficient operation. My first full year I put $50K in my pocket handing out business cards at happy hour with a helper and subbing anything too big. Mostly subbing all tear-offs and hot-mops and doing my own shingles, tile underlayment(SA)and lots of repairs. It was EASY. Since then I've tried to grow and because of the lousy labor situation in Miami it's been a huge struggle. My website rocks and generates enough leads that I turn down jobs every day but I simply can't DO them fast enough to make it work. When I had one or two helpers they were always with me so there was never a dispute over hours.

Resentment would go both ways if not handled properly and you can't afford to have it show in their work for the customer. I think a lot of times even the good employees think you are making money hand over fist. I think sitting them down and (nicely) educating them on what your cost and responsibilities include, they may have a different outlook and possibly a good turn around.

I think you just solved the problem Tom.

Many years ago a wise old man told me a little riddle about how to fix these kinds of problems and in every single situation that I encountered over my 30 years in the business his advice was spot on.

He said when there is a problem with your employees it's almost always ONE bad apple.

The only trick is to figure out which one and take that apple out of the barrel before it spoils ALL the apples.

Thanks pgriz - good advice - However, for me, been there - done all that, decades ago, with the 100-odd employee ritual.....Just puts'n around with a couple of employees these days.

FWIW - Employee contracts are virtually ineffective here - Then add each state's laws, and it's typically not worth the paper it's written on.

Tom, perhaps it is time to put together an employee contract, outlining what is (and is not) acceptable. Obviously, you'll have to verify that nothing in there will violate the state's rules on employee's rights, but I've found that if you have something in writing that is signed by the employee, you have a very powerful tool in your hand in the event that they try to create problems for you later with the state department looking after these kinds of things.

It doesn't have to be very fancy - but should cover what are acceptable working hours, how these are recorded/reported, what is acceptable notice (for absences, for instance), what is the pay policy, what are the rules for working on the side (including use of any company equipment), etc. This should also cover things such as expense reimbursements, holidays, advances, employee responsibility for company property, and so on.

It doesn't mean that just because you have a contract with the employee that things will now go swimmingly well, but it does help you if the legal eagles get involved.

Met with one of them earlier - Had a brief discussion. He kind-a played dumb about it - Said he was OK with whatever I decided was correct.

When I met with the other one - It took less than 60 seconds to come to the result of me telling him I'd get him his final check later that day.

While I didn't appreciate the 1st guys' actions, I gave him a pass, as he's new to the trade so-to-speak, and otherwise, has been a reliable/hard-working guy.

The 2nd guy though; This was the last straw, (possibly a bit of pent-up resentment?), was moonlighting on the side, quit once, then asked for his job back....A very knowledgeable roofer/carpenter, but he's been ruined as an employee, due to the ease of playing contractor here in the beautiful state of Colorado where there's no contractor licensing.

Resentment has been mentioned here several times. Rocks got it right IMO. Wise advice. A few words on resentment Resentment is like poisoning yourself and waiting for the other guy to die.

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I'd go w/ #2 if they were ideal employees other than this issue. They'd still have the all-watchful eye on them w/ a magnifier which would bother them to the point that they would quit. Resentment of an employee is a bad situation all around.

It seems of utmost importance that you break the ice and talk to them about this becuase it is causing you to develop resentments which can only lead to more problems.

This needs to be brought out in the open. I would talk to them and see what they say. Try to do it in as kind of a way as possible under the circumstances and let them know that you do appreciate the work that they do but money is tight and if the business doesn't make it then everyone is going to become unemployed.

Show them the hours you came up with and let them know you are watching things. Be willing to negotiate with them just this first time at least. Maybe meet them half way on the hours they came up with versus the ones you came up with.

One would think that after such a meeting they would tone it down.

TomB., I think I would go with plan #2 in particular because you have no replacement help. What is done is done. Maybe they erred and will see the light. Maybe they honestly feel they worked those hours and you need to hear them out. It should be the last time it happens......until you turn your back.

OW - Absolutely - Ya can't teach an old dog new tricks.

OS - Yes, I agree.

Which leads me to my dilemma-

On one hand, I would prefer to just pay them their last check with the added stolen hrs/$ and just send them down the road kick'n horse turds.

(However, there is absolutely no available roofers in the area to fill their spots)

Or, do I; 2) Sit them down and try to reason/educate them of sorts on ethics....Show them my accounting of the weeks' work hours and hope they have a change of heart?

3) Give them their checks for the proper amount & tell them nice try, but that crap doesn't fly here & risk them going to the dept. of labor/etc. causing all kinds of unnecessary grief for me?

4) Plead with them, to please not steal from my family; I'll pay them the added hours, if they really think they deserve it, and simply let them go when I am able to replace them?

There are two kinds of people in the world. Those with character and those who are characters.

You can't teach integrity and honesty to a grown man. They either possess it or not.

This is why I always said I would prefer to hire the right kind of person with NO experience and train them rather than hire a highly experienced person with personal issues.

Employees charging you for services that they haven't rendered is the same as going to a restaurant paying for the meal and not getting the food. Stealing time is stealing money and that in my opinion should be a criminal offence.

I used to have the same problem for many years.

However, I finally figured out how to stop it.

I got rid of them all and became the "Chuck in a truck" you mentioned.

But I don't do roof replacements or any jobs that require a lot of labor.

Only skill oriented repairs which can be done by a single experienced roofer.

ME ;)

Exactly!