Cheap Blasterds!

Guy just hung up the phone on me when i gave him a bid for $4,800 to do a 12/12 slope 1-layer townhome cut to pieces and 3 stories. Was for a 25 yr. 3-tab. 17 sq. and had to be tied into both neighbors roofs. Said he had 2 other bids. One for #3,000 and the other $3,100. Nothing wrong with honest hard work but if your gonna give your services away for wages/same price you could sub from another company for then why dont you do just that. Or get a job with another company! Geez!! The only "overhead" these guys have ever heard of is related to hanging sheetrock! lol>>>

CIAK,

You must admit, though, that some of those business models are deliberately based on substandard workmanship. I'm seeing pricing up here that, when you strip out the materials and disposal costs, put the labor at levels not seen in over 30 years. Texas Roofer's real life, recent example is only one of many that bear out the thievery that is occurring.

I hold the consumer equally responsible for the outcome of this situation.

Call it a business model if you want . . . . but our bank account is much healthier this year due to the repair work resulting from this "business model". But hey, it all spends the same . . .>>>

I will play devils advocate here. I do believe that making money on a job is extremely important. That is obvious .To say " because you were under bid by someone else , as much as that hurts means it is a crappy job ? Is just wrong. Everyone has their business model. People will always go with a person they trust. Price is not the touch point. Most H/O's know that so and so does roofing. They are roofers. They trust the fact they know what they are doing. They hire them. I've seen the other end of it where H/O's paid way more than most were charging didn't get what they paid for . Lesson is much deeper than one realizes. It sounds like crying over spilled milk when delt with on the surface .>>>

Ole Willie...I have this happen a lot. Seems every Paco and Taco in a 300 mile radius throws a ladder in thier truck and magnets on thier doors and they're in the roofing business! Don't worry about overhead items like taxes and insurance! I recently lost money on a roof to prove a point. ;) The house that I originaly bid on, gave it to another guy in an old beat up truck for 400.00 less than my bid. I took the house next door, which was 700 under my bid. I knocked off a 1000 bucks and upgraded them to 30 year Certainteed. My guys were in and out in one day. The other guys were there for 5 days. 1st wind storm we had at 90mph straight line wind, took that 3 tab roof and blew it almost completely off. The customer then called me back in the 2nd time. Upon inspection of the roof, no where close to being installed right! Not even 3rd grader close. So the 400.00 they saved just cost them 5800.00! Lesson.....you get what you pay for!>>>

Ole Willie I know it is the economy . Repairs can be very lucrative . You really have to get your name out there or have had it in front of the public for a while. If your good you will survive. I have been doing this for so long I almost never miss. When I'm out on a catastrophe my son will call me from a roof and if necessary he will take a picture . It is amazing how I can see what is going on in my head without being there. Back in the day , I would look at plans and they would become 3D in my mind . I would point out problems and details not even considered before construction. I remember the plans coming alive in my mind . To me it was quite amazing>>>

I think the future of the residential shinlge business for us white guys is going to be in repairs! That is the only part of my business that has had growth every single year for 15 consecutive years. And with the poor quality of installation going on these days with all the cheap work its only going to grow more and more. Im afraid that at some point in the near future shingle roofing may become nearly obsolete. There are just too many problems with it. The poor workmanship, material defects. Ad Infitum! We did nearly 300 repairs in 2007 which was a level 5 exceptional drought in our area all year long. The worst drought on record! Figure that one out! lol>>>

Out of respect to your topic Ole Willie I deleted my answer. If anyone is interested go to "Fire at one of my last Rental">>>

CIAK Said: I have had the good fortune of winding down at the right time. It was not because I had a crystal ball or some great brain . Just pure dumb luck. Now being light on my feet, I can turn quickly and run when I have to. If I were still fully in this business >> Whoa !!! I would be sweating bullets . My heart goes out to alot of you guys. A question I might be asking my self at this point . How can I turn this dinosaur Im riding ? May be looking at something else to do . Anybody have any ideas ? Right now it only looks worse for some period of time. As most of you know Im working the Catastrophe end of things and supplementing in between events roofing repairs. When THE LOVELY MRS CIAK starts going on these events with me . I can foresee just giving work away until no one calls me at all. That is the end game for me as I see it now.

So you do or don't have a license?.......which one is it? What county do you do all of these so-called "repairs"?

JET>>>

I have had the good fortune of winding down at the right time. It was not because I had a crystal ball or some great brain . Just pure dumb luck. Now being light on my feet, I can turn quickly and run when I have to. If I were still fully in this business >> Whoa !!! I would be sweating bullets . My heart goes out to alot of you guys. A question I might be asking my self at this point . How can I turn this dinosaur I'm riding ? May be looking at something else to do . Anybody have any ideas ? Right now it only looks worse for some period of time. As most of you know I'm working the Catastrophe end of things and supplementing in between events roofing repairs. When THE LOVELY MRS CIAK starts going on these events with me . I can foresee just giving work away until no one calls me at all. That is the end game for me as I see it now.>>>

We are getting the estimate requests and are bidding them very close to break-even. Even doing that, when I am making follow up calls on the estimates I am constantly hearing "You were several thousand dollars higher than XYZ" One person let me see the estimate she got and I was floored. The whole thing read "Install a new shingle roof" .. that's it! Yes, it was $2100.00 less than my estimate which puts that job around $152.00 per square. I can only assume that there will be no tear-off, no new flashings, nothing but shingles.

I tried to explain to her that it was not possible to tear off, install new underlayments, ice & water shield, new metals and shingles for that price and still pay for liability, workers' comp and payroll taxes. Homeowner said that the other contractor told her that she would get a "sob story" like that from anyone who came in with a ridiculously high bid!

It was time to smile, wish homeowner a good day, get back in the vehicle and swear all the way home.>>>

GKRFG Said: I dont understand why a homeowner would bother to get upset at a contractor over a price. I can understand why they might choose a lower price but some people seem to take everything personal or something. Willie- my price would probably have been double. I would know that I was not going to be doing their roof but I would go through the motions. I dont know why I keep going through this same old crap. But I do. I guess its like fishing, I keep casting out my bids and hoping to catch enough to keep things going. If I wanted to make lots of money it would be very easy to change my business, sub out to uninsured foreignors, charge a little less and make a whole lot more. I must have a mental block, cant do it.

Damn, that sounds very fricking familiar to me for this year too.

What the frick do I do?

The one I have going on in Bartlett right now is a premium dollar for a very highly specified job, but came as a carte blanch referral, with no other "Bidders" to compete with.

No one else right now is even returning the calls to set up their appointments to drop off the presentation and go over the samples and options.

Ed>>>

This topic brought back memories of back in the day . The roofing company was cranking and running like a well oiled machine. There were customers that gave a strong impression that you were not the contractor for them. The let down always appeared in the salesman attitude . Something like this would follow a trip from one of these types . " I don't want to bother going back and dealing with them or they are not going to buy from us or what a waste of time etc, " A lot of the time we would get a call and get the go ahead much to the surprise of the staff. I remember my sales managers advice ." The first reaction is " NO " learn to over come it, wipe the thoughts I can't from your thinking and vocabulary " Great advice.>>>