60 Mile Per Hour Wind Rating

I found this old topic today. Can't say when it was written but there are a lot of old timers here. Does this stuff still ring true?

Robby the Roofer:

I have been surfing a web site where you ask a roofing expert a question and of course they respond with their intelligent answers. many questions refer to shingles blown off in a major wind storm where winds sustain well over 60 mph. His response is that it is the contractors liability because they roofed in the winter. Or regardless of when it was installed, it was the contractor who chose the material.

My question are (1) If a manufacturer will only warranty a 3-tab shingle for up to 60 mph winds and the contractor installs in August (plenty of time to self seal) and shingles blow off in December storm and winds were documented at 65 mph....who has the liability?

(2) Contractor installs in December and the shingles blow off in February (two months later and not enough time to self seal) from 65 mph winds...who is liable?

My opinion is that....regardless of self sealing or not, once the wind exceeds 60 mph, "all bets are off" (so to speak) it is expected that shingles will blow off anyways. There is no man. warranty applicable after 60 mph and the contractor should not be at fault either.

REPLIES

TWILL59 - They nailed correctly? Really, there is no guarantee if winds get over a certain speed. Asphalt shingle manufacturers even date their wind warranty. They know the sealant is temp. (I've been wondering why insurance companies insure products that aren't even installed right. Would they insure a car w/no seat belts, bumpers or a steering wheel? I just wonder if the storm chasers now own the insurance companies, (laugh).

TINNER - I went around and around with Insurance people about that. Why NOT dump it on the roofer that "Stated by his install method that He would assume ALL responsibility by nailing high, and improper starters, and the manufacturer's warranty wasn't valid anymore? Ins. Co's. said it would make them look bad? Me? I feel that if the 'roofer' claims, by his install, that HE will warrant the roof, let him do it! IMHO, I feel it would lower rates and kill off the hacks in a hurry. BTW, I also feel that if you want to live on a 'Fault line' or a beach, you don't need insurance. Pay for it yourself. That policy would eventually restore the beaches to their natural self. let nature take it's own course.

Dr.ROOF - Up here the shingle warranty is written something like "the shingle warranty is only in effect once the roof has achieved a full and complete thermal seal." Which in Canadian roughly translates into "we already got your cash so piss off".

MISCREANT - Anytime the wind exceeds the rating of the shingle it should be covered by insurance. I agree that most times shingles blow off, it is because of improper installation. I don't want to live in a world where a multi-million corporation(The insurance company or the shingle manufacturer) has their team of wing tip wearing lawyers pointing there manicured fingers at me (and jabbing me with pointy sticks). Where does the line end up. Sure, the other guy is always wrong, but what happens when they put your work under a microscope, "Mr Roofer, we ain't exactly happy with the way you spaced a few of them nails on this job, here's a bill for for $12,000." Be careful what you wish for.

JSC - I've dealt with this several times in the past. In one incident, I had about 400 houses of three tabs laid down over the course of a year. Had an unusually high wind (70mph+)that January that tore up all the ones that were laid in cold weather. Builder demanded free repairs. I told him it was an act of GOD, and an insurance matter. He said "well when you see GOD, send him by.....meanwhile git yer ass out there and fix it". I then called out the MFG rep, who (without even inspecting the roofs) told me that if I made a big deal out of it, the mfr would just send out an inspector and the first high nailing they found would void the warranty. The MFG rep then offered to furnish two pallets of free shingles and that was the end of the story. Except that the wind came up again within a month and tore it up again, with the same scenario. We had to fix hundreds of houses twice for free, or end up in lawyer heaven.

T-LOCK TECHNICIAN - We will not install roofs in unprotected areas from the wind in the winter for that reason. (our state tree is the telephone pole.) We will go back and fix most wind damage if it is a roof we did, even if it is out of warranty for free. Most wind damage falls below h/o deductible, so they or we ain't gonna get any help from insurance. We won't rely on the manufacture to do anything unless we can prove that there was something wrong with the sealant such as a roof that has been installed for 3 or 4 years and still won't seal. I think the best you can hope for then is for them to pay you for hand sealing.

T-LOCK TECHNICIAN - I'm with you tinner, never seem to have much of a problem with blow offs when it was all hand nailing, but that has been discussed here before. I think the nail gun (or the operator) are the problem here.

OLE WILLIE - Its been my experience that most shingles that blow off are old and brittle and the seal is poor. In that case insurance should cover but really only partially would be fair. In the case of a roof under say 8 yrs. old than they usually do not blow off unless there is a problem with the installation or the seal strips. With the exception of massive winds of course. Personally when that happens i will go out and determine why the shingles blew off if its on one of my jobs. If they were improperly nailed then i will fix it at no charge. If nailed properly then the insurance should pay unless the glue strip is defective then the manufacturer warranty should apply. AND last but not least if no one can agree on the cause of the blow off then the JUDGE gets to decide!

ROBBY THE ROOFER - The point I was trying to make is that some shingles are expected to blow off over the 60 mph, so therefore, whether the shingles were put on right or wrong, it should be irrelevant. No-one should be liable. The "expert" that answered my questions agreed as well! Now, if they blew off under the wind rating, I agree that either warranty could apply based on the installation practice.

EGG - Hey twill, in decreasing order of desirability, one wants to be 1) the subrogor, 2) the subrogee, and lastly, 3) the rogue. Insurer pays off the homeowner and then recovers the loss from someone else. I've had shingle manufacturers step up to the plate and I've also had them slither and slink. About 50/50. Actually I would say they have done a bit better than 50/50 all-told. In my opinion, if the roof is old and it blows off, it should not be the insurer's expense. Should you only have to buy one set of tires in your whole life? Everyone's trying to manipulate the gray areas. It's the way the human mind works. It comprises a large slice of what goes by the term 'cunning.' Equitable adjudication of things falling into the gray areas requires discernment, not cunning, but as a species we are largely incapable of making that distinction, especially when our own financial interests are at stake.

WYWOODY - I live in a county with a unique micro-climate in one corner of it. If it's clear here in the winter, a situation develops where there is higher pressure on the East side of the Cascade Mountains than here on the West side. This causes a strong wind to come out of the Columbia River gorge and about a quarter of the county will get gusty 40-60 mph winds while the rest of the county stays calm. Every year, there would be Winter blow-offs of freshly installed comp in this area. The county over-reacted and made the entire county a 90 mph wind zone. But I only learned about it while investigating the wind requirements of one particular job. I have yet to find another roofer or roofing supplier that's even aware of it. I don't see any of the 90mph shingles going on, you would need to special order them even to get them. It's a construction defect attorney gold mine waiting to happen.

TWILL - Egg- good analogy about tires. Seems fitting as the Ins. Cos. are now the Maintenance Division of Homeowner USA.