Joe Stassi - Bringing Tech-savvy Talent Into Roofing - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Joe Stassi of Carlisle SynTec. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and  challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting Roofing Road Trip. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and  welcome to Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth. And today, we are truly having a very, very special podcast, Roofing Road Trips, with my dear friend and, I have to say, mentor in roofing and in sales, Joe Stassi with Carlisle. Joe, welcome to Roofing Road Trips. 

Joe Stassi: Right. Happy to be here, Heidi. Great to see you. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, it's great to see you. This is just making my day. It's early on a Monday morning for both of us, but what a great way to start a week. 

Joe Stassi: Right. Right. So this industry is always about connecting with old friends. I've been around way too long. I feel like I know everybody or a piece of everybody. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. How many times do you say, "Yeah. I've heard that name. I know them from somewhere"? 

Joe Stassi: All the time. All the time. And I think my biggest thing now is and  I know you want me to introduce myself, but I've been in this industry now, I'm getting ready to start my 42nd year- 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh my gosh. 

Joe Stassi: ... in a couple of months. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. 

Joe Stassi: So 42 years. I remember walking into the rooms in 1984 and  I was the youngest guy. Now I have trouble not being the oldest guy and  that's my biggest thing these days. Now I walk into a room, I look around and  I'm like, "I'm glad you're here, because you're the only one in this room older than I am." 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I know. I love it. I can relate to that so much. And so much has changed, but it's really fun to have been on this ride and  especially with friends like you. So let's start with that introduction. If you could introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about what you do with Carlisle and  a little bit about Carlisle. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. So really interesting. Great timing on this too. So Joe Stassi, the executive vice president at Carlisle Construction Materials, which covers all brands, all that. We're in that succession period right now where I'm looking for who's going to be my replacement, what's going on. We just had an announcement come out. Mark Long is going to be the new vice president of sales. So I'm in that neat leadership area now where I get to mentor people. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Nice. 

Joe Stassi: So as I like to say, I'm still heavily involved in all the strategy, all those types of things. But I get this point now where I start to peel off some of the responsibilities so I can make sure that I'm ready for whatever my next step is, which is hopefully retirement not too far down the road. When I say too far down the road, a couple of years probably. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow, I can't imagine you retired, Joe. 

Joe Stassi: I know. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I just can't even see it. 

Joe Stassi: I know. But at some point, we got to make room for some of these younger people. They're incredibly talented. What I see coming up in this industry is really positive. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Me too. 

Joe Stassi: Where the industry is coming, we can touch on all that in a bit here. So sales is my focus. It's been my focus, Heidi, for most of my career. Right? I've had marketing roles, product marketing roles, not necessarily how to go sell stuff, but product management roles. So in 1984, I came out of college. I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do, but I didn't want to get a job. I just wanted to put enough money away to go to Europe. That's all I wanted to do. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And everybody was doing that at that point. 

Joe Stassi: Yes. Right. I wanted to go blow whatever savings I had in Europe, then come back and figure out what life was all about. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: So I got out, graduated. I was still doing my old job, which, between semesters in college, I was moving furniture. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. Okay. 

Joe Stassi: I did a great job. Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? Early mornings, all day, got weekend, overtime, all the things. So I was socking away a lot of dough and  my roommate went to work for JM. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, okay. 

Joe Stassi: And he's like, "I have another opening. You should just go interview for it. You'll get it." And I'm like, "Yeah. I don't know that I want to do that. By the way, I don't know anything about roofing." He goes, "You don't need to know anything about roofing. I'll teach you everything you need to know about roofing." So I went and interviewed for it and got it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. First job was at JM. Now, I didn't know that. That's awesome. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. First job would have been early... I'm going to say it was August 1st, because I really was just trying to put away some money to go to Europe. So anyway, got started with them. Five months later, I get called into headquarters. We didn't have email back then. You got a phone call from an- 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Was it a pay phone? I think it was a pay phone. 

Joe Stassi: No. You got the recording on your home recorder. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Phone. Okay. 

Joe Stassi: Right? Yeah. So I call him back and  they say, "Hey, get this. Joe Smith would like you to come in." Not the Joe Smith that heads up JM, but his dad. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, okay. Dad of Joe Smith. Oh my gosh. 

Joe Stassi: His dad was VP at the time. Great guy, by the way. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: And so, I went in and sat with him and  here comes Joe, 775 pounds and  Joe Smith is a big guy, Joe Smith Sr. as I call him. So I went in and interviewed. We flew out to the Northeast. I met with a bunch of guys, plant manager, Tony Russo, if you remember that name from years gone by. And they gave me the job and  I was supposed to go to Connecticut. Well, the guy that took DC elected not to do it. So now, February, January actually of '85, now I'm in commercial roofing. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, okay. Still have not gone to Europe? 

Joe Stassi: Still have not gone to Europe, making more money than I ever thought I would make. I knew about the DC... They give me a company car and  I thought, "This is it. Does it get any better than this?" 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: And I'm selling roofing, which nobody knows what roofing is. It's unfortunate in the U.S. that the trades don't get better press, so to speak, because when you go to Europe and you talk about the trades, they're highly revered professions. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Yes. 

Joe Stassi: In the U.S., they are revered, but more siloed. If you're in an industry, you know about it. If you're not in the industry, you don't know about it. So my kids used to ask me, "Why roofing?" 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: And I'm like, "It's a really good question and  here's I hope what comes out to be a really good answer." I said, "Number one, it's the people." And as I've told you, I'm getting ready to start my 42nd year. I've made an incredible number of friends in this industry. And when I say friends, people I can call. I can go to the city. I can call them up. We'll go to dinner, whatever. Right? I have very close friends. So I just really enjoy the people. 

Now, I probably would have enjoyed the people in any industry that I would have wanted to get in. But roofing? I don't know. It's just the people in here. It's not just the people my age, the people that are already out of the industry because they've decided to retire or  the young people coming up and  I have friends that are 20 years old and  I still have friends that are 80 years old that I stay in touch with. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It does not surprise me. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. I love it and  I think the challenge. I'm a very competitive person, sometimes to a fault, my wife would probably tell you. But the industry itself and the way you have to approach it is ever-changing and  it keeps you very interested. It makes you want to get up and go to work every day. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It really does. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. It's great. So that's a little bit about me. I've been with Carlisle now 22 years? Yeah. 22 years. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. And for those of you listening out there, Joe and I did work together at Carlisle for a number of years. I was on the marketing side. Joe was on the sales side. 

Joe Stassi: Correct. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And then when I decided to go into sales, I went to Joe and said, "Hey, can you help me? Because I want to go into sales," which really still isn't done that much. You still don't have a lot of marketing people who switch over to sales. You have a lot of salespeople who do marketing, but you don't go the other direction very often. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. And it's unfortunate, because we need more good salespeople. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know and  it's so fun. Sales is- 

Joe Stassi: But you have to be a self-starter. Right? You're on a bit of an island when you get into the sales thing, because you got to go do your thing. You don't have the whole corporate support and the next office over and those type of things. But yeah, so the industry is always in search of good salespeople. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it is. It is. And you know what I love? I see a lot of these... Just like you came out of college and went into sales. A lot of times, that isn't something that's really discussed. I mean, I know when I graduated, no one was saying, "You should go into sales." 

Joe Stassi: Right. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It was kind of almost a bad thing. 

Joe Stassi: My counselor said I should have to go to law school. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: He's telling me I need to be a litigator and  I'm like, "There's no chance I'm going to law school. I got to get to Europe first." By the way, it took me 18 years to get to Europe. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: But you got there. 

Joe Stassi: But I did get there. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh my gosh, I love it. Well, okay, so I want to circle back on one thing you said, because in your career, even though you've been mostly roofing, being with Carlisle Construction Materials, you've gotten to see some other industries, haven't you, a little bit, like HVAC and some of the other ones. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. I mean, Carlisle was a pretty diversified company and  we do a lot of talent development. So I was able to work with the Brake & Friction group, which we've sold off and  I had friends in the Interconnect Technologies, which we sold off. So I was able to see bits and pieces of it. My career has been roofing, but I've seen bits and pieces of these other industries and  I think what keeps people coming back... 

And even today, we have our waterproofing division and we have our roofing division, the Henry Group, CW as we call it today and  they're managed by a different group. We talk regularly internally. We need to do more of that. Right? We've got to get in and  our industry is evolving. Our technology is evolving and  where we're going is, I think we're right on the precipice of what is going to be a pretty dramatic change in our industry, I think. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay. And what is that? 

Joe Stassi: We're seeing several things go on. One is technology. Technology is going to play a factor in virtually every industry. Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: AI and what it's doing and  as fast as information is now being developed, whether it's product-related, process-related. It might have to do with plants. Whatever it is, it's all going to be impacted. So how we approach it and  we've got this little thing called labor that continues to be our number one issue. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes. 

Joe Stassi: Right? So how do we get labor off the roof? Everybody is looking at it. What are we doing to help our contractors be more efficient? All of those type of things, I think, are going to continue to be the forefront of where investment goes and  it doesn't matter if you're a distributor, if you're a contractor, if you're a manufacturer. Everybody has to look at this. Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Everybody. 

Joe Stassi: Carlisle, we want to lead it, but everybody is investing in it. So we'll do our share. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And along the AI front or  even along the technology, so many people think software, but there's things happening with robotics and  we're seeing the robotics on the roof. We're seeing automation on the roof. And you and I talked a lot the last time we were hanging out together at the Roofing Alliance meeting, talking about research and data and how critical data is to the future. Talk a little bit about that. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. So when we look at it in any company today, the information you have, what are you doing with it? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? And there's so much. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: And how you look at it, what you're doing with it, the processes by which you do all this stuff is all going to play a huge factor in that. How do we get a little bit of an edge on the competition? Right? So everybody is trying to figure this out and  this isn't roofing-specific. I don't care what industry you're in today and  we're adding it. So we have a lot of data that we mine and we look at and  we have a tremendous amount that we still have to tap, so to speak. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Still in that data lake. 

Joe Stassi: It's actually really cool. So it's fun to take a look at what you're doing and then, "All right. How do you do it? Who do you do it with? Who do you get in? Is it a consultant from outside? Are you just doing it internally?" All those type of things. And it's a wild ride and  I think what companies are doing today and  watch the technology companies and what they're doing. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Joe Stassi: You got to bring it into the roofing. You got to bring it into all the trades. So we're doing that. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I have to tell you, probably one of the biggest steps in my career was when I went from Carlisle to EagleView, because it was so different. And EagleView was coming in as a technology company not knowing roofing and  I was roofing not knowing technology. And now, today, that is just a given. Right? And, I mean, I can remember, Joe, the days on the roof where they had a staff and  Carlisle was leading this. Remember you had a staff and you walked around the roof to get the measurements and to do all of that? 

Joe Stassi: Oh, yeah. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. And now, we fly drones. We do things. In my opinion, it's literally tip of the iceberg. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Where this is going is going to get... Roofs are going to be smart someday. Right? We're going to do all the things that technology will present itself. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's going to happen. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's going to happen. You were talking a little bit about that next generation and  I think, really, when you look at that, that's one of the things I'm pretty adamant about, that we need to sell to that next generation, especially coming in on the labor side of it. We're going to need people to run the robots. We're going to need people to do the service and maintenance of these smart roofs. 

So it's going to be a different level of knowledge or of what we're looking for, but we're still going to need people to put the roof on. But that is also going to be higher level and easier, because it's going to be automated. So in your mind and  maybe what you're seeing with your contractors and with Carlisle, what's that message to the next generation about how cool roofing is? Because we know how great it is from a people side of it and just from an industry side and how forward, but really, with what they're going to be doing, what's kind of some of that messaging? 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. And I think what the Roofing Alliance is doing through Clemson, what ASU is doing, what we've seen with everybody that participates in the IRE competition, whether it's Colorado State, go Rams, but it's construction management departments. Right? Nobody gets a degree in roofing. We're close. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Close. 

Joe Stassi: And then we're getting the associate's, right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: So we're much better. I'm a big fan of what's going on down at Clemson right now, because I think that can be sent throughout the construction management departments across the U.S. But what I think it is, is our industry, we don't advertise it well to young people. It's word of mouth. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it is. 

Joe Stassi: And you got to get away from that. We need to be able to sell the industry as a great career. And I think where it's going with all this technology, you're going to attract a different skill set. Right? It's not going to be Joe Stassi who stumbled into roofing. It'll be more of, "No, there's a path and a career." And that doesn't matter if you're a contractor, because you want to be your own boss, whether you want to work for distribution, which is very much going to go high-tech, particularly with Home Depot coming in, with QXO coming in now, what ABC is trying to do, what these regional folks, some of the smaller folks and  then, of course, what's going on in the manufacturing side. It's going to continue to see that investment. Carlisle has been very forthright in their investment in R&D and- 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: R&D. 

Joe Stassi: ... where we're going and  we've always invested in it. Well, we're going to increase that investment severalfold to make sure that we're doing the things that we think will help lead this industry. It's on all our quarterly earnings reports now. So it's exciting and  I think what you're going to see is younger people coming in. We're already seeing on the tech side, on the R&D and that. 

Now, what's it going to look like on the sales, marketing, what you do? We're seeing it on operations, because operations has to do things different today. So the whole thing is starting. We're getting that inertia. We're seeing it. As we go out and advertise this, then it gets a little bit louder. Our competition is going to do the same thing, distribution. QXO is going to bring a different element. Right? It's brand new. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: It's going to be really interesting to see what the team does over there. And I also think Home Depot didn't invest all that money just to sit on their hands. Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: No. No. 

Joe Stassi: They're going to bring technology to that side of the business as well. So that's why I think the industry as a whole, when you look at a contractor, the size of tech, what's going on, we didn't see that 20 years ago. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: No. 

Joe Stassi: Right? There were attempts at roll-ups, but what's going on today with the consolidation across our industry has just piqued my interest more and more on where it's going to go and how they're going to get there. But they can't do it without investing in people and  they got to get the right people. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The people. Well, it's interesting, Joe, because I'm going to say and  I'm not sure yet if I was right, wrong or  indifferent, but when this all started last year and we were really looking at all the M&A activity and everything that was happening, I was like, "This happened in the '90s." In the '90s, I remember when I came into roofing, which is about 10 years after you did, there were these huge roll-ups going on and all these... That's where Tecta came from and a lot of CentiMark and some of these other folks. I don't know if CentiMark was part of that. 

But there were a lot that just pretty much went away. Right? They rolled up and  they went away. And at the time, roofing contractors can't all get together too much. They're too independent. They're too entrepreneurial. And so, I kind of last year was thinking, "Well, it's probably the same kind of trend that we see that trends back and forth." But it sure feels different this time. I don't think these are going to go away like it did last time. 

Joe Stassi: No. I think, Heidi, with all the private equity money that's out there today, the amount of money that's coming into our industry, particularly on the contractor side and  you're going to see it in other facets of what we do, whether architecturally it starts to happen. We've heard some information about some investment on the architectural side, but the roofing contractor one, other industries have rolled up 80, 90%. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Roofing is not there. I don't know and  I've talked to some of the private equity folks. I don't know that roofing will ever get that high, because it's relatively easy for somebody to break off and go start their own company. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: Right? I mean, a lot of that is relationship. Right? And if you kind of run it and you put a good service out there, people will hire you locally. But as these other companies continue to get bigger and leverage their size and do those type of things, there is an opportunity for them to consolidate a little bit more. I talked to one of the folks. They thought the industry would get somewhere between 50 and 60%. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. 

Joe Stassi: We're a long way to go. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: We have a lot of contractors. I have a lot of friends that don't have a succession plan. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? This is a pretty good succession plan for us. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: This is a good one. Yes. 

Joe Stassi: They're in their middle-late 50s and  somebody comes and offers you multimillions, multi-tens of millions for your company. You're going to look at it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. Right. 

Joe Stassi: That's a strategy that works. So these companies coming in, these private equity firms, some want to hold onto them for a while. Others want to take it, build it, spin it. It's what private equity does and  figure it out. But they see a positive return in roofing. So I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon and  the big ones want to get bigger. 

And we have the national contractors. Right? We have folks that are going coast to coast now, others that are bringing in private equity for half their business, kind of thing what Progressive has done these days and  you have Tecta and the size that they're getting and  you have the independent contractors like Peach State and folks like that that garner coast to coast with multiple branches in major metropolitan areas. 

And so, we're looking at things differently. Right? How do we manage these folks? What's the connection? How do you continue that relationship? So we have to be aware and cognizant of that as well so we create some sort of a positive customer experience for everybody. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. It's funny, because you mentioned Peach State. They were always big. They've always been big, but they're just getting bigger. And with Progressive purchasing BELDON, I mean, you just kind of go, "Whoa." 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. Brad and I have been friends for a long time. I couldn't be happier for him. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. I know. He seemed pretty happy. 

Joe Stassi: But those are kind of things and  Brad is an old friend of mine. We go back decades and  he's one of my favorite people, just because he and I have had knockdown, drag-outs. Yup. At the end of the day, we figure out how to make sure that we go forward all the time and  it's just what I love about this industry. We can do that and  it's okay. We can walk out at the end of the day. We might not talk to each other for a day or two, but we get back there and we figure it out. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: They do. When you look at a lot of these big roll-ups, they do have anchors. The private equity seems to have gone out and found strong industry professionals to kind of anchor a lot of these and  I think that's helped. I think that's been a strong... because I tell this to people every single day in this business. Contractors are cynical. They don't trust people and  they have every right. 

I mean, if you think about all the products and all the technologies that have failed over the years, this industry should be cynical. And so, it takes really that contractors talking to contractor, really getting to have that trust before you can make these moves and  that seems to be a lot of what's happening. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. And I think too, I think as you look at this industry, Heidi, when we go to any sort of an industry event, a lot of these contractors are friends of each other. You know they compete, but they're friends. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: They get together. They know how to do it. When you see them and then when you talk to them individually, if somebody takes a job from them and they're not happy with them and  then as soon as we get together, whether it's a call founding an industry event or IRE or whatever, they're all buddy-buddy. They know each other. That doesn't mean they're going to go have dinner with each other. That doesn't mean they're best friends. Some of them are. Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Some of them are. 

Joe Stassi: Some of them, they trade. How do you do business? Right? They have these collectives, cooperatives now on insurance, all the things going on to help them progress their businesses. I think that's what I like about this, because wherever I go, whether I'm home in Colorado or I'm in Chicago or Boston or San Diego, when the groups get together, we all have a good time. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? It's always fun. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We all know each other and  it's fun. Yeah. I agree. Okay. I want to talk a little bit about products, because some cool things that have been happening is going to dovetail into what you were saying about technology, that technology is actually driving different product innovation. And it was really interesting. We were with Renovate Robotics. They're trying to make a robot, shingles and  one of the things they said that really struck me was, "All the products we've made have been made for two hands and  being able to carry product." Right? 

As we move into this different automated world, however that looks, the products may have to change and  the innovations may have to change, along with, you think about all the other things that are going on in the world. But as you're putting all this money into R&D, what are you guys seeing about that change in products? Because I think that's something that roofing products have been the same forever and  now all of a sudden, there's a chance to look at them a little bit different. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. And I think that's a critical point to part of our strategy going forward. I mean, our newest product membrane-wise is TPO. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: It's 30 years old. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. That's right. 

Joe Stassi: Right? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We saw it get born. 

Joe Stassi: So we've got a big thing. So what we're trying to do is we take evolutionary. Right? So we have products. How do we make them better or  what can we do to take labor off the roof? Right? So our 16-foot TPO. Right? So it's fewer seams, can go down quicker. And it's funny, the adoption of it has been going very well in the North, because they like big rolls up there. They're big [inaudible 00:26:57]. They know how to handle heavy rolls. A little bit less in the South. Right? So those type of things. 

We have what we just came out with with SeamShield, because seaming is a bit of a problem. So if we can seam it better, easier, faster, what can we do? SeamShield is just a strip we put down the seam. So they just peel it off. They don't have to clean it now. All they got to do is peel that off and weld it. So now- 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow, nice. 

Joe Stassi: ... your seaming goes much quicker. So there's that type of stuff that's kind of labor-related to a degree, but it's also performance-related. So we kind of marry the two together, because we watch it. Our industry, in its infinite wisdom, we put 30-year warranties out there with labor and material. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: Our liability is great. So we want these roofs to go down right the first time. So part of our innovation is associated with how does this roof performance work, but also get the labor off the roof. Then you got to start thinking about revolutionary. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: What is next in the industry? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: And we have a team of people that are working on what does the future look like for roofing and  how do you go about that? That is a much taller task today than just, but there's a tremendous amount of technology out there that we're just scratching the surface of that will play well in roofing and where we're going. Smart roofs of the future are going to happen. Folks are going to get there. We're going to figure it out. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: It's not 10 years down the road either. It's sooner than that. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's sooner. 

Joe Stassi: We're going to see some stuff in the next five years that'll probably turn this industry on its ear a little bit. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I can't wait. I love that stuff so much. And when you say smart roofing, I just think of smart homes. Right? And, I mean, I know we're talking more commercial, but it's smart buildings, where a facility manager is able to see there's a leak or identify moisture or  they're able to do whatever they need to do without even going on the roof. 

I keep seeing, I keep hearing companies coming and talking about it and  we all know it takes time, but those are the kinds of things that are going bring roofing, I don't know, to the forefront a lot more, because I think a lot of facility managers, people forget about it. They don't even think about the roof. We always say it's the last thing they think about and  I think that's really true. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. Well, you need food, you need water and  you need shelter. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Shelter. Right. And that's what we do. 

Joe Stassi: Right? Those are the three important things. We provide one of those three. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: But the smart building that you just mentioned, I think, is going to... You can't do it without a roof. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. 

Joe Stassi: Right? You can't do it without the appropriate roof. And what's the technology that has to go into that, which is going to see an incredibly difficult environment, whether it's sun, hail, rain, wind, whatever, affects the building and  the the roofing system has to be developed in a manner in which it's going to perform long-term. You're seeing solar go on roofs today. Right? 

You need a roof that's going to last 25, 30 years, because the expense of taking the solar off, disconnecting it, putting a new roof on there, putting the solar, it just gets more and more expensive. So all of those type of things, Heidi, are in the crosshairs of where the industry is going to go in the next five years, 10 years and  people coming in ought to be really excited about that because it's going to get more... I think you're going to see more people on the technology side want to get into our industry. You're already seeing it on the R&D side. 

 Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: People come on the sales side, because the sale is going to be highly technical in the future. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes. That just gets me really excited, to think about that and  to think about the sale. And back in the day, when I was at Carlisle with you, we talked about the ROI of the roof. Right? What is the return on investment? Is it solar? Can it be used? Is it stormwater? And that seems to be more and more as we look at the sustainability drive in our industry or in our world. That really is. And so, to be able to communicate that from a sales side, that there is ROI on the roof that you put on and  how do you actually see some return on that for your building owner. 

Joe Stassi: Well, we focused heavily on insulation back in the day. Right? What was the return? How much energy could you save the owner? And there was a point of diminishing return. You can go so thick that it doesn't make any difference. But buildings today, the environment is changing, weather is changing, all of those things. So an ROI on the roof is no longer just insulation-related. Right? It's going to be building-related and how that functions with the building and what we can do. Right? Can you get to the point where a leak occurs, an alarm goes off and  suddenly, you're up there because it's now proactive and not reactive and  now we react to it? 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: So what's the next step there? And what can the building do from an energy standpoint? All of that is right at our doorstep today and  we just need to develop. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So for the contractors out there who are listening to this, I mean, this is, in some ways, pretty exciting and, in another way, it's probably a little scary, because it's going to change the sales profile for the manufacturers, of course, as they're selling these high-end products, more technology-driven. 

But for the contractors, it's really going to be a technology sell and  also service and maintenance and  maintaining it with all of these new technologies. So what's some of your advice, Joe, for contractors out there right now on hiring the next generation and hiring young people and how they talk about this and how they position their business to be ready for these new innovations? 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up. So generationally, as we see the folks that are coming into this industry today, technology is their life. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? It is what they do. Right? They're all familiar with it. We didn't have any of this. Right? I had to call my recorder on my desk at home to get the messages and  it was perfectly fine, by the way, to get back to somebody in 24 hours. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes. 

Joe Stassi: Now it's like one hour or, "Why didn't you text me back?" or whatever the case may be. So when I look at that generationally and I see folks coming in today or  anybody that's in their 20s or 30s for that matter, they're already in line with this. Their expectation is, we will get there. I think it's going to be a function of, again, finding the right talent who will and  I think what's happening is some of the older people that aren't and weren't brought up on technology are going to go out. The new folks are going to lead it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: I think if you're older, you better hire younger so you can stay up with the times. And then if you're younger, that thirst for that technology, they just gravitate towards it. It's easy for them to adopt and  it's very exciting. Now, I sit and watch this stuff. Yeah. I got to have a lot of it explained to me sometimes. But when you think about it, it makes perfect sense. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. It does. 

Joe Stassi: So I think that if we can advertise our industry to the right group of people and  how we advertise it, we can get there and  I think we'll be just fine. We're going to have and continue to have a lot of people, a lot of openings in this industry and  we got to advertise it right to find the right people, because the opportunity is great. You can make a lot of money in this industry if you handle it correctly. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You can. You can. A lot of money, a great career and  amazing friends. 

Joe Stassi: And amazing friends, because I always say, work to live. Don't live to work. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Work. 

Joe Stassi: If you're going to work hard, you may as well have fun doing it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. And be someplace you enjoy and  it's really fun. 

Joe Stassi: Right. Right. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, Joe, thank you. We kind of circled from the very beginning to end in that it's okay for some of us older folks to get out of the way a little bit, bring this younger generation in and  mentor and  have fun, because what a great group coming in and  it's kind of fun to be at this point, I think, I have to say. It's really to see all these young people coming in, but a lot of people are retiring around me. So I'm going to have to think about this. But you said you have a couple years. So I feel good about that. 

Joe Stassi: Yeah. Yeah. I'm just figuring it out one day at a time these days, but I'm very happy. I look back at the 41 years and  I wouldn't have changed it. I really enjoyed the career in the roofing industry. And again, it's the people. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? I'm not selling a copy here where he's get one and  three years later, I see... I got to talk to you today. I got to talk to you tomorrow too. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Joe Stassi: Right? You become very close with your customers. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You do. You do. Oh, I love it. Joe, thank you so much for taking time today. I have to tell you- 

Joe Stassi: You got it. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... this has been the best. So much fun and  congratulations on everything. 

Joe Stassi: Yup. Great to see you, Heidi. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Great to see you. 

Joe Stassi: Appreciate it. Okay. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And thank you all. This has been a very special Roofing Road Trip. So I hope you enjoyed it. Please check out all of our podcasts and Roofing Road Trips under the RLW navigation on RoofersCoffeeShop or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips. 

Outro: If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in and  we'll catch you on the next Roofing Road Trip.