Brian Cook - Level Up Your Project Management Game - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Brian Cook of Dataforma. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to a Roofing Road Trips from Roofers Coffee Shop. This is Heidi Ellsworth and we are literally on the road for this podcast. I am at the spray foam show and I am so lucky to be able to find some time with my very dear friend Brian Cook from Data Forma who I can't believe he's on a podcast. He's on Roofing Road trips. This is so exciting. And so we wanted to do it while we were at the show. Brian, you are at home. I am thinking in Pennsylvania. No, Texas.

Brian Cook: Austin, Texas.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So the weather's not too terrible there for you.

Brian Cook: was 85 this weekend and it's 65 today. So both, I'll take both for February.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, I love it. And in Daytona right now it's in the seventies too, so we're doing pretty good. But we are here to talk about data form. We are so excited to have you all on the coffee shop. So Brian, let's start out with, in your introduction, you could introduce yourself and tell us about your company.

Brian Cook: So my name is Brian Cook. I am the Senior Vice President of Data Form, although I look very junior. I've been with data forma I think for 17 years now. So it's been a fun road. Yeah, we came, I say we, I mean I would think I was 18 when they created data form, but uh, I knew the owner of the company. Yeah. Where they created it. And I, you know, I worked there mowing the lawns, I swept up the shop, I interned, interned during summers, interned during college, worked there after college. And that's about the time that the vice president of that company. Um, and it was a fairly large but not huge company. You know, we had multiple office locations, multiple division. And I just remember him saying, this is crazy that like we never know where our company information is. You know, this guy, like he has his outlook and I can't have access to those contacts and I have no idea where the service department's going today, who's bidding on what job.

Brian Cook: It was all these very typical problems. And even like the shared, uh, drive at the office that everybody had. Well you know, he likes to save it under the, yeah, he saves it under the building. So when we look for it, we never find it. And so I remember when I was interning there, so they tried every generic program that existed, you know, like Service Master or whatever, generic <inaudible>. And then, then they looked at the accounting packages and like, Hey, we'll pay you to customize these modules. Those can get pretty pricey. You know, we're talking, you know, six figures and then they come back and it's nothing like we discussed. Then they looked at, you know, the really big guys like Salesforce and those are amazing programs, but again, you have to pay an amazing price tag. So then that guy, Darren Moronic, spent two years talking to Mark Zales and he's still our CEO and Darryl's still our president to build data for at night after working as a contractor during the day. And that's how data form came about.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You know, I love that story and I really, when you look at some of the best software out there, it is all contractor developed, contractor driven. And Brian, uh, you and I have been doing this about, well, I'm a little bit older than you, so I'm not gonna say we've been doing it about the same amount of time, but I've known you for a long time. And back in the day, if you go way back in the day, it used to be people would be kind of poo-pooing. The fact that it was contractor driven today or developed today, that is like the badge of honor. And so to tell that story and to have your principles still driving innovation, understanding the market, I mean, that's a big deal.

Brian Cook: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I mean it is too. 'cause it's even what helped in those early years, I remember when I was very young, we didn't have a ton of, what's that quote? How did you go broke very slowly than all at once. That's our growth. Very slow than all at once. I remember being worried like, man, we're not getting a whole lot of customers. I was like, but I'm like 22. If we go out of business, no big deal. I'll get another job, I'll go somewhere else. Yeah, exactly. But once you start getting, because this is such a great industry, right? The roofing industry, everybody's so tight. So you get 5, 10, 15 really good customers who will go to bat for you and call like, Hey, I want you to use data form. Please call so and so. You know, and he or she is gonna tell you that it really works. That's what really fueled our growth in those early years. It was all word of, and to this day, word of mouth is probably a third of our new business every single year.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it is. Because contractors trust contractors, they want to hear what other people are using and how it's working and it's working for them. I have been to a number of your user conferences really when I look at Darrell and Mark's involvement in the industry and really understanding it and generational, generational for Darrell with his family. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It's, it's so inspiring. So I'm kind of curious as that growth, looking at the growth that you've had since the beginning to today and how not only the growth of sales, but the growth of your mission of really what your passion for helping this industry. Talk a little bit about that.

Brian Cook: Yeah, so it's interesting because I knew that Darrell always intended to be the hub of all of his company's information, right? You heard he like, I don't know where his contacts are, what's the service of who's bidding that? Where the heck are these documents? But I recognize early on, hey, there is a need for commercial service software in our industry and we do that really, really well. So let's make it simple. Let's just tell contractors we commercial service management, right? That's what we do. It's simple, you know and then you're not as invasive in that company or intrusive I should say, because we're just messing with the service team, not everybody else. But we always wanted them to kind of sprawl out through that company. Like, hey, human in storage here. You know, you could do some CRM stuff. And now that we've developed this new functionality for project management, you know, that's, we're we're noticing instead of signing up with seven or eight users, companies are signing up with 15 or or so right off the bat because like, hey, I didn't have to use this other stuff that I cobbled together.

Brian Cook: We can all be in a single system. So like, it was planned growth, but it took a ton of time. Because think about it, all of this takes a lot of resources to build new functionality. Then we have to maintain it. Okay, there's a mobile app, right? Like I understand some of our competitors don't have mobile apps, and I get it 'cause it takes a ton of resources. Like did you know that when you, when you upgrade it, you have to say, apple, do you approve of this upgrade? And they can say no for anything and then you have to fix it and then get back in line. So I mean, it's a ton. Like I remember Heidi, you and I met absolutely, we had one programmer, now I think we have 17. So,

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh my gosh, holy cow. That, you know, that kind of growth comes because the contractors are driving you, right? Which means they love it and they are, they're bringing their ideas. I mean that's when you need all those developers and you're right, we're looking at apps. Apps are crazy and working with them at EagleView, it's, it's, it's just nuts. But you've really created this culture of success and I love that Brian, for all of your okay, I'm just gonna say one of the things that I love most about Data Pharma is that it is a culture of success on all levels. You are not just the sales team, you're not just ownership, you are everyone. You have these amazing super users who understand data form inside and out. Talk a little bit about that culture of success on so many different levels.

Brian Cook: Yeah, well it's funny too 'cause you're right, it goes from like the bottom to the top. So not everyone knows this, but we're a lot like a family. So a lot of the people that work at data forma worked at our roofing company and we don't outsource anything. Like we don't outsource our customer service. We don't outsource our tech people. So like when you call data forma and say, Hey, something's wrong, Shelly answers the phone a lot. Well, to me, Shelly is mama for, 'cause I've known she was 16 years old and I have to send her a picture of my kids every two weeks, right? Because she's mama for Yeah, <laugh>. And so, so like there's this and like we want to help. So when you call us, we truly want to help you. 'cause like it happens every now and then, one of our customer service people will be like, Hey, I don't know the answer to this question.

Brian Cook: And there'll be an all staff email and it's a race to answer it first so we can help that customer out. But it's the same thing. Like I told you, mark and Daryl are still our owners, right? We don't have funding from any VC or PE person. We don't answer to a board. We don't answer to stockholders directly to customers. I love it. And your right, two of them are my personal friends, you know, like no, but it's too because when you're that close with everybody and they, they can say to me, Brian, you guys really screwed up with this piece of functionality and they know that I'm gonna take it well and say, Hey, we're gonna go fix it. So that when they say something is really good, I know they mean that too.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, they do. I mean that's the thing that I look at and you really, you're hearing about it from all different sides of the company and you're bringing people in to really give you that information. And I think, you know, one of the things that has set you apart, I can remember demos back in the day showing the CRM, the CRM, how it would, you know, back then it was like, oh we can do marketing from this. You can track all your customers, just like you were talking about that Darrell was pointing out. But today you are so much, so, so much bigger, I guess is what I'm gonna say with CRM service, project management software that you are really working through. Tell us about kind of that growth too, just in the capabilities of the software and how many different areas you're touching in the company that really expanding the whole roofing company.

Brian Cook: Yeah, I mean, in the perfect world, a contractor using data form, every time they get a call for service or a new bid, it goes directly into data form. And that's where it starts and that's where it flows. This is where I track the bid store, the documents, I create my proposal, I mark it as I, I got the job or didn't, what's my bid close ratio, right? If it's a service job, what stage of the process, all my documents. And then even creating your, after the fact, what roof system did we install and what warranty is there right now? I'll give you a little hint of something. 'cause we, I just found out we started putting some AI into data form. So going forward there's gonna be some really cool stuff like, Hey, I want a suggestion for the description of this photo, right? Ai, check out my all past due invoices and tell me which customers are good or bad. But uh, yeah, the real, yeah, right. Pretty cool stuff. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And really, let's, let's talk just along that line, let's talk a little bit about project management because I think that's, that's an area that I guess has gotten a lot of attention, but it kind of feels like it hasn't gotten a lot of attention. And I would love to know your thoughts on just what does project management mean to you and how are you in, how are you making that world easier for contractors?

Brian Cook: Yeah, I mean you're definitely right that it both gets attention and doesn't because it, you know, from a top view, it's just a broad term. Yeah, it could mean a million different things. What are all the things that could go right or wrong in a job and what are the millions of things that lead to those? So that's what I call it. It's the cover your butt stuff. It's, did we pull a permit to, you know, did we do a punch list? Even things like, you know, because this happened to me, Hey, did you pull a permit so we can have that crane on the street in DC on Sunday? You know, like that's something that has to be done. Yeah. So, and and what's interesting is contractors are using a hodgepodge of softwares or their own Excel files to do this. So we came out with a big call.

Brian Cook: The first was the mobile time card because a couple of our contractors said, Hey, we're using your app for everything else and we have to pay a lot of money to this company just to have a clock in, clock out, just build it. So we built that. Then we said, you know, it'd be cool, I have my hours. What if I could see how much done we are on the actual roof? So we built production tracking. So now the foreman can also say, Hey, I did five squares of this today and we tore off that and we put down some, you know, counter flashing. So if I'm a project manager, I can log in the data form for anywhere and see, cool, we're 85% done hours, but we're 90, 90% done up on the roof. So we're ahead on this job. And I know that before it's too late because we would all find out two weeks later, oh man, we lost our butts on that job.

Brian Cook: Yeah. So now we see it every single day. And then we noticed there were third party apps just to do like safety reports or things like that. So we built what we call field reports, which each contractor can customize. So maybe contractor A wants a daily safety check, a safety incident report, a change order from the field report. But they can all customize what questions are asked in those reports. So now I can document what's done at even toolbox talks, who did what toolbox phone, right? Again, in one system. And then the newest one, which is really cool, we call task manager. So I mean, the world has changed so much since we were contractors. Nobody's like, we were always in the office together. Nobody's ever in the office together anymore, right? I mean, look at, you're in Daytona. I'm in Austin,

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Brian Cook: Sometimes I have three hours to a job, so I'm not going back to the office that day. So contractors now can say, Hey, on this job, here's all the things I wanna make sure we do. And I can say, Hey, this task is for Heidi. And then it'll text you, email you or do both. You have to do this and then alerting you until you do it. And if I'm your boss, maybe after three days, I want to know that you haven't done it yet. So I get to say, Hey Heidi, why the heck haven't you done it? So now I know that you're, and then when you mark a task complete, it'll mark, it'll tell the next person or people, Hey, you guys have to now do X, Y and Z. So now it's, it's like we're, it's like the way the world is. We're connected, but we're always apart.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes, yes. I mean, talk about we are connected and that's what your software is doing is continuing to allow people to be connected in a way that, you know, you've been doing for decades, but now is in a totally different level. And so I love the fact that you've brought that project management in to help contractors kinda level up with the, what you just said, with the, you know, evolution of remote workers of how, how do roofing companies really deal with this? And you're, you're talking about it that, I mean, you're actually, you're offering solutions.

Brian Cook: The crazy part is data form a group here is just from our hard work. So that's why we really love to partner with you. Just so like more contractors can hear about this, but know we exist. You know,

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Let's, let's go back to that a little bit. Let's, I I wanna hit that one more time, just a little bit in that what and you and I have talked about this a lot, a lot, Brian, is that contractors, you know, we kind of have memories of elephants, but yet we don't, it's kind of a weird industry that way. So everybody thinks of data format in one way, but now it is such a different animal and you are bringing so many solutions and so much so talk about that difference between what, what you think a lot of your customers, I mean, let's talk about your customers, right, right now who signed on. Love it. They're using it this one way, what should they be looking at adding and really understanding that now data pharma can do so much more than it was before.

Brian Cook: Yeah, well it's, it's true. 'cause it's funny, we even talked about that in our management meeting. Some of our old users are our worst users 'cause they never listened to our upgrades. So we kind of found 'em on the head and say, Hey this, but it, it's really fun too because, you know, you and I have been around for so long every year I will get two or three or four contractors that first looked at us 10 years ago, right? So I this while I was in Naples for the end board meetings and I mm-hmm <affirmative>. I drove this contractor and the owner said, holy crap, you've come so far. Right? Even if you've looked at it, look, because truly in the past five years we have skyrocketed. Like that's where I said we had one program, we're now 17. That's where a lot of that growth came. Because when people are adding more users to start, our revenue's going up and when old, you know, you know, legacy clients are adding more users, we have more revenue. Again, that doesn't get handed out in like, you know, shareholders dividends. It goes directly back into the company to say, Hey, we need more so we can build more. Yeah,

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I mean that, that is the thing is that you as a software company have to continue to diversify because your contractors, your customers are diversifying. I mean from service and maintenance to obviously new construction, you guys have had that all along. But there's so much, I mean, I'm sitting here at the spray foam show how many contractors are gonna be adding spray foam or already did because the material shortages and they are changing the things. So to be with a company that is contractor driven, that is listening to the contractors and for their technology, I think that's what data pharma, that's what people have to realize. You have to have that.

Brian Cook: Yep. Yep. There's an infinite need for software and we just hope we can supply it one piece at a time.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I love that. So, okay, one of the things that I wanted to talk about too is how contractors should be looking at technology. I think, you know, obviously it's, it's a problem solver and it solves, the problems are going on with production or service and maintenance. And a lot of, obviously if you're in service and maintenance, you have national accounts are requiring certain types of software and things. But it's, it's, it's also a differentiator. So as you're sitting in front of that building owner, as you're sitting in front of that facility manager or national account, they expect this, they expect that you are at a level, a high level of technology. Can you talk about that and how contractors need to really level up on all sides with technology?

Brian Cook: Well, yeah, it's, you're, you're, you're so right. And it's interesting, I, I get requests from clients now like, Hey, you gotta fill out this form because multi-building owners, they have a, like a requirements field. Like, hey, does your software do A, B, C, D sometimes. So it's like it's, hey, if you even want to get in the game to bid, you gotta have these items. And the the same thing too, I mean I have a friend and this is kind of funny 'cause we, you know, we have a portion of data form where building owners can log in. Yeah. And he always paid for it. He's like, you know what's funny, they never use it. But I always sell clients because they think that we're so far more, you know, advanced than everyone else because we have this technology. So I get, you know, another 20 buildings a year and they never even log in. But they still love us because we have it. You know, sometimes it's just the cost of admission.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah. Well and I think they wanna know that you're in the front, right. That you are gonna be that company that's gonna be able to take care of them, whatever you may need, whether they use it or not, they wanna know that you're not just gonna give 'em, I, I know very few people do this, but a bid on a piece of paper.

Brian Cook: Yes. Well no, I mean you're right. 'cause it just shows. Okay, because what does it really show? It shows that we care. We tried, we were ahead of the curve, you know, again, we're not just lagging behind and saying, yep, we can do this. You know, it's the same thing with like data pharma. Like I said, we're already working on AI 'cause we see it coming. It's like, cool, let's incorporate it any way we can get some customer feedback. And then when we get that, what's the next cool way that we can do it? You know?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Because it's not going away. It's not going away. Yeah. It's, we have to incorporate it. You know, you said some, we, we were talking a little bit earlier, but I really want and you're kind of bringing this to the forefront too, is really looking at, it's, it's a cultural shift within your company and I and probably not as much as 10 years ago when we were talking about this, where you have to get your company to make a cultural shift towards technology. But I think there's still some of that. And how do you help the companies culturally make the shift from paper, from files, from filing cabinets to technology and really using it.

Brian Cook: The, I think and this is funny 'cause I do make a joke in every demo that we are the last so company in the world that answers the phone. And I think that puts a lot of people at ease. No, truly. I get up every time I say that they will laugh because it tells them, again, not some massive corporate structure we're and again, if anyone would see me, it helps that we look like we're from the roofing industry. You know, I'm a lumbering six foot, 245 pounds. I don't look like a software person. So it really does help that. Like, hey, we look like you, we speak like you, we just got lucky and made this software. So now I type every day and sit on the roof. And I think that truly like showing them that like, hey, all the things that you've, you've thought of and asked about, like we've already, we've covered, we know it.

Brian Cook: And I think that's a big part of it. And then our training team even so like when you come on, it sounds like a bunch of generic softwares where you just go off into the wilderness, we train you, like you get a dedicated trainer to go through all of your training sessions with data format, same person every time, right? We record the sessions and send, when you have questions you call in, we never charge you. I think those are the things that make it a lot simpler to, to affect this change. But certainly 18 years ago it was not easy to get people to use computers and silly and still, yeah, in certain, certain companies it's the same. But we just ease it and show 'em like, hey, we've thought of all those questions that you're asking. We've thought of it,

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You know, you are so, right. I mean when we started Roofs Coffee Shop started in 2002. Most contractors didn't even have a computer on their desk. So you know, they were still having one computer in the whole company and printing out the emails, <laugh> and putting 'em in the inbox. But I think today, obviously that's totally different, but there's still, we are a relationship industry. We believe in relationships. We believe in picking up the phone. We believe in helping each other and going to that next level. And that's not just within the contractors in, in the industry. That's with their, their customers, with the, their community, their building owners. And so Brian, you guys, you rock and I tell you what, congratulations on your, the addition of your project management. I'm excited to do a little bit more on that and we're gonna be having some articles come out. We're gonna be talking more about that because project management is so key. And then combining that with the long-term service and maintenance you guys have, you've got it dialed.

Brian Cook: Thank you. It is such a pleasure to finally be on your show.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know, I love it so much. So, okay, how can people get started with data format?

Brian Cook: The best thing is go to, you know, data form.com, request a demo. They come direct to me. So if you want a direct demo with me, you can just put it in the notes. Otherwise we'll see who, yeah, you can deal with Brad, but that's the best way. And then, you know, demos take 30 or 45 minutes. I don't stretch 'em out. So that way you know exactly what you're getting into. Obviously we go to all the major, major trade shows. IRE, SA ner, Marcia, Western States, uh, which other ones did we go to? Everyone, not all the ones Heidi's that, but most of them. So if you wanna see most

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Of them and you're on a majority of boards too, yous, data foreman gives back so much to the associations and the Roofing Alliance, NRCA, Western States, MRCA, you guys rock. I mean you really give back so much to the industry. So that's a great place to spend time with you to really through it on that one-on-one. But of course you can find them on River's Coffee Shop in the directory and also on our Coatings coffee shop, which you see behind this in directory. You can get find data format and get all that information. Get ahold of Brian, and you know what, take your business to the next level. That's what it's all about.

Brian Cook: Yep. At least give us a look. You won't, you won't mad about the fence, it won't be wasted.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is awesome. Hey Brian, thank you so much. Thank you. While I'm doing at a trade show, we're on air right now and it's awesome to have you a part of the show even though you are in Austin, Texas right now.

Brian Cook: Alright, Heidi, I appreciate it so much.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Thank you for listening. Please check out the data form and directory on Roofers Coffee Shop and also all of our podcasts under the read. Listen, watch navigation, look for Roofing road trips and on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road trips.

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