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Is the insurane company required to pay for ridge cap and starter course?

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February 8, 2012 at 2:25 pm

bbb2eall

Hi Everybody I'm the new guy. :cheer: I found this web site on google and it seems to be a cool site.

My question is: "Is the insurance company required to pay for ridge cap shingles and starter course when the roof is totaled?"

I have been dealing with several different insurance companies and when I send them my Xactimate showing charges for ridge and starter course, they tell me that those items are included in the waste. Is that correct? Or should they have to pay for those items in addition to the waste???

February 8, 2012 at 6:23 pm

TomB

What about gas to get back & forth to the job?

February 10, 2012 at 10:02 am

bbb2eall

Hmmmm. That would be awesome too... lol Does that mean that they don't have to pay for it???

February 13, 2012 at 9:54 am

thunder

They add 10% (waste) or 15% on a hip roof but it wont take a full 10 or 15 of the field shingles the difference is for starter and ridge which is right because normal ridge and starter cost less than a square of 30 year but their paying based on that if the roof has already high profile ridge then you can add that line detail on top of the 10 or 15% trying for starter creates friction and is not needed as it is in the waste http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/rcs/users/thunder/

March 4, 2012 at 7:39 pm

soldierboy

Maybe some of the problem is that every storm chaser that allows the insurance company to stick exactomate up there arese. I don't work on there numbers and get what I want for the roofing work that we have done. I can't stand storm chasers and companies that roll over and just agree on an insurance companies pricing. How about you knowing what you are looking for in your Gross Profit% and going after it. Make enough money to grow your business and put some away for the low seasons so that you are there for your customers later. Make them pay if it cost you more to buy the specialty caps! Don't accept exactomate as the "Norm". Tell them that you work for the customer and if they have replacement value and your not so far out of line then tell them to pay your prices as you have the contract with the customer that has replacement value. Exactomate is just that some idiot in a suit that sets pricing around the Nation. If you pay your taxes, insurance, comp and pay a decent wage you could never make a true profit on Insurance work alone. It doens't ever seem to pay enough. Stand up for your Money and you should get it. Just my two cents!

March 4, 2012 at 8:24 pm

twill59

God Bless you soldierboy. Not a word of BS in there.

March 5, 2012 at 2:09 am

Estimators on Call

Mileage is going to vary on that one... If you are talking 3 tab, it is pretty tough... if you are talking architectural, then you have a better chance. There are a few things that will hedge your bets, like showing them the installation instructions for the product, but even then, you are going to have a rough one...

There are so many factors you are dealing with... Experience of the Adjuster, unwritten internal policies of the insurance company, regional requirements, local and state laws and codes... the list goes on and on and any one thing can effect the outcome of the adjuster meeting.

You can have two houses, in the same tract, with identical damage and coverage, get two totally different outcomes. Roofing, as far as insurance goes, is the wild west. Water damage is much easier. Pretty much a cut and dried situation (no pun intended) because of the calculators that will tell you the exact amount of equipment needed for the drying process. You are essentially getting them an invoice instead of a bid.

Good luck. Dealing with this on a daily basis, I totally understand your frustration.

March 5, 2012 at 6:32 am

TomB

Now your talk'n soldierboy! That's how we roll....

March 5, 2012 at 7:37 am

twill59

I had a conversation with a TYPE A insurance agent last summer. He sez "Oh yeah, OSHA safety standards are already figured into insurance pricing"

There is truly a mental disorder at work here.

I don't think roofing insurance is in the pricing. I KNOW that work comp IS NOT. Now OSHA is priced into Exactimate?

Whew. They really do teach lying in college don't they?

March 5, 2012 at 8:17 am

TomB

I've always marveled at "insurance" work never inludes utilizing WC ins....We all know the predominant "ins wk"/storm-chaser types skirt labor burdens via representing employees as "subs"....

March 5, 2012 at 9:32 am

Estimators on Call

Not sure if half the folks coming out of adjuster school know what OSHA is.

Soldier boy is right... too many inexperienced folks are desperate for their piece and so they accept insanely low prices that barely pay the bills. It is about doing the job, indemnifying the customer, and getting compensated fairly for the job done.

March 5, 2012 at 1:41 pm

soldierboy

I would have to say that the guys that are taking "THE NEXT STEP" in their carears started with a stormer. (They couldn't have been at the school of hard knocks) That's what they know and they think they can do it better than the quy that stopped paying them. Come to think of it, that's where all the young guys are. They think that the grass is greener on the other side. SO, let's get a couple ignorant guys to go out and look for storm damage. Get whatever the insurance company pays, find the cheapest SUB-Contracted "(EMPLOYEE)" and BAM, we got ourselves a business. Sad thing is they put themselves right out of a home after awhile, can't pay the truck payment and eventually they are out of work. Now, they want to come work for a good company that squeaked by the season looking for work. Full Circle and I keep seeing this happen like a roller coaster. my soap box story :-)

March 5, 2012 at 4:26 pm

dougger222

In theory the insurance carrier is not obligated to pay for ridge or starters like others have stated it's built into the waste factor.

Here's an example of a recent roof I did. Adjusters scope based on EV, Sq's off 75.44 Sq's on 87 (hip roof) Materials used, Sq's 81.67 Starters 6 bundles In this situation the adjuster paid for ridge cap and we used 14 bundles. That being said on a fairly cut up hip roof we used 5.33 less sq's than the adjuster paid for.

In almost every case it's a waste of time to try to get an adjuster to pay for ridge cap on the 3 tab. Some adjusters claim they can't pay for a low profile ridge on a laminate shingle. Have even had to convince some adjusters they owe to replace high profile ridge cap.

Back a few years I included R&R ridge on all estimates with 3 tabs but after getting called out on it 9 out of 10 times decided to enter the length in the line item but below would add, This line item is to note the amount of ridge cap currently on this roof.

As far as starter shingles? Good luck! I had one adjuster write a claim including starters. I was going to punch up the roof in X but after seeing he was 8sq over and double the required ice and water just told him his estimate looked fine. The final price was $425 on a 6/12.

Do all storm chasers work off adjusters estimates? 1 out of 100 claims I may work off an adjusters number but more often than not they are thousands low. Have had adjusters write a claim for X amount and after final negotiations are made the price is doubled! Over the years I've learned to first secure the job then submit an estimate to the insurance company at which time upon request will provide one to the insured.

If you know how to write estimates in X you should do fairly well. In my area current X prices for a standard roof is $350 a square. Most "contractors" sub to a crew from the DEEP South at $50 a square. Materials your looking at no more than $150 a square. $150 a square is left to go back to the "contractor". If you are not making any money at $150 a square after buying materials and paying your "crew" to put them on you got a problem. Keep in mind some roofs hit $450 a square same install price and same material price, now there's $250 left...

Kudo's to the guys getting the insurance company to pay $500-750 per square for a one layer tear off with asphalt shingles... No wonder my rates are so high J/K!!!

From my experiance some adjusters and even some insurance carriers will pay just about any estimate for a roof replacement to close a file. I guess if you work enough claims you can get your big bucks sooner than later.

Personaly I have no problem getting $450 a square for a 7/12 hip roof, pay my crew (white locals) $75 a square R&R and $150 a square for materials. What's left is about 5 times more money than I would get to roof the house as new construction.

In my area the going rate for a non insurance job to an insurance job is mind blowing. At the last manufacturers meeting 125 contractors were asked to write down the price to do a specific tear off. The answers were anounced but no names were given. I was the second highest and I based my price off what a typical insurance company would pay based on current X pricing. When they anounced my price ($2K higher than the third highest) people gasped. For the record the highest bid was a few hundred higher than mine, figured he knew how to use X too!!! The lowest bids (several) came in were I'd be at after paying my crew, pulling the permit, buying materials, and paying for the dump fee! This left $0 left over...

March 5, 2012 at 4:45 pm

dougger222

For the record I'm not a storm chaser as all my leads are word of mouth. One of my best friends is a 3 state storm chaser. Back in 08 a storm chaser sat at my wifes bar and they started talking about roofing. He said in the past 3 years his company roofed over 1,500 houses and he has 150 mexicans working for him. His wife was very pleased with all the hail damage in their back yard so he got to run his business out of his home for one season. Once hundreds of roofs were done it was back on the road.

It's been said to me by seasoned adjusters that a very good living can be secured as an adjuster willing to travel. One said it best. If you want to make a lot of money and work a lot it's a perfect job. You will more than likely get divorced and your kids won't call you dad. Have met several husband and wife adjusting teams, brothers, sisters, and boyfriend/girlfriends.

March 10, 2012 at 10:01 am

spudder1

I know that in the State of Florida all insurance companies are required to pay for roofing and construction per the FBC building codes, also the work must be completed by a licensed contractor. I do know that this is not true in other states, we were working in Texas doing commercial reroofing and when Hurricane IKE came rolling thru many insurance companies started to pull their bull chit and include certain items as part of the job without pay. In some areas you can follow the insurance guide lines and get away way by installing a chit roof covering, we chose not to work in Texas and thanks to the Texas windstorm folks we left. Oh well each does their own thing but here in Florida they have to conform to the FBC building codes, thats probably why many insurers have left the great state of Florida lol

March 10, 2012 at 1:16 pm

Wallace Stine

BB2eall

I have posted a link that addresses this in detail for your review.

http://support.estimationpro.com/entries/21120382-is-a-insurance-carrier-required-pay-for-ridge-cap-and-starter

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