I am done........

Self imposed starvation, Tom. A race to the bottom. I heard that Wally World is trying to make changes. Their business model was to be cheapest and now they can't go any lower to make a profit.

twill59 Said: I like that Chuck. However, in IN I dont see the HOs giving a crap and ultimately what I have heard back from Ins. Cos. is this: We Pay what we pay. End of discussion.

One time I had a customer fight hard. He wanted the job to get done. he was a former county commissioner. Not at all clueless as to what things cost.

Ins. Co. would not come off their pricing. Period.

I admit thst I dont know the next step. What to do.....

(NOC?)

The contractors are causing the problems. If every contractor say "We charge what we charge." End of discussion.

If every one charged $500. per sq., that's what the Ins. Co. will pay. Period.

N.O.C Notice of Commencement.http://cache.trustedpartner.com/docs/library/TownofPalmBeachShores2010/Content/TownHall/Notice_of_Commencement_form_59.pdf A Notice of Commencement is a recorded statement executed by the owner. The Notice of Commencement identifies the name and address of the owner and requires that all persons that furnish labor and materials to send a Notice to Owner. By recording a Notice of Commencement, the owner can require the general contractor to supply releases of lien from all persons that have served a "Notice to Owner." Construction must be commenced within ninety (90) days from the date that the Notice of Commencement had been recorded. The Notice of Commencement is effective for one (1) year after it is recorded unless otherwise provided in the Notice.

To the extent that a recorded Notice of Commencement is not posted on the job site by the owner, the municipal building department that issued a building permit, may not approve the first inspection which occurs seven (7) days after the building permit is issued. In the event a construction loan exists, a lender must, prior to disbursement of any construction funds to the contractor, record a Notice of Commencement with the clerk's office. The failure of a lender to record a Notice of Commencement renders the lender liable to the owner for all damages sustained by the owner as a result of the failure to record it. Liability may result to the owner if construction funds are disbursed to the contractor and a subcontractor is owed money. If a Notice of Commencement was recorded, the lender and owner would have received a "Notice to Owner" from that subcontractor. Consequently, the lender would not have disbursed funds to the contractor without first acquiring a release of lien from the subcontractor. Absent a Notice of Commencement, the owner may end up paying twice for the same work; once to the contractor and thereafter to the subcontractor to satisfy its Claim of Lien. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

The point that is being missed, The H/O is paying the bill and has the rght to decide whomever does the roof. H/O decide to file the claim. H/O makes themselves available to the contractor and adjuster. H/O allows each to enter their private property. H/O and contractor sign the contract not the insurance company If you sell the H/O they sign next to you,the insurance company doesn't have a line to sign on any of my roofing contracts how about yours. Get the NOC signed by H/O and notirize, permits filed and get to work asap. Everyone says it is the insurance company. Not to put to fine a point on it. The H/O controls . B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I have never understood how some of you guys can't make money on what insurance pays...how do you sell a homeowner a roof for $500 a square?

I regularly talk with contractors from across the country who pose similar questions. There is one and only one way to do insurance work if one wants to achieve the best results and the highest profits. With the proper presentation, the majority of people a trained and certified contractor talks with will sign their contingency agreement that legally obligates the contractor to the customer and the customer to the contractor.

Most contractors only claim they are "insurance claim specialists" but don't or can't back up the claim. Introduce yourself to the potential customer and show your credentials that prove you really are an insurance claim specialist. Have them read your materials while you inspect their property. Go back and clarify what your materials say, give them an overview of how the process works, why they need you as opposed to a thousand others only making the "specialist" claim, what usually happens if they don't contract with a real specialist and you should have them asking for your pen and wanting to know where to sign.

In a storm situation, there are usually more than enough potential customers to go around for all the locals. Unfortunately, most local contractors, although they may have run a few successful insurance covered storm damage repair jobs (probably for less than full RTA)do not know the process as well as the so-called "chasers" who come in and sweep up a good portion of the work. Many of the "chasers" place ad's for locals to go knock on doors but many of them know less than the local contractors and/or their sales reps. However, because the "chasers" have their marketing down, they are still able to come into anytown, USA and take the work the locals should be able to contract.

Not a complicated process - if a person takes the time and makes the investment in themselves to learn the process the right way.

This is what I used to send my potential customers to and where my contractor customers send their customers to for third party support.

http://www.burcos.com/recover.htm

"Your estimate should simply be... "I will do the work for insurance proceeds." The cost to the homeowner, regardless of the amount of the final claim, is their deductible."

No. " I will do the work for my contract price, irregardless of the low payment you're getting from the Ins. Co. They don't set my price. I do. :)

If you run into any situation where you have a signed contract with the customer and you hear, "There are other contractors that will do it for what I am writing it for." or "I will just have to refer the h/o to another contractor.", politely inform the adjuster that it is "tortious interference with a contract". That is illegal.

If you are getting this on a daily basis, you may want to change the way you communicate with the homeowner. Let them know up front that it may happen, and that the proper response is simply, "No these people are my contractor of choice." That is the conversation ending right there...

I would suggest that if the customer is being abused by the adjuster like that, a call to his or her personal agent is in line. I know mine, and I have done business with him for years. The last thing he wants from me is a call saying that his service sucks...

There are plenty of other routes to go before getting a lawyer involved, including, if it a repeat offender... sending a letter to the State Insurance Commissioner.(copied of course to the H/O, adjuster, and ins. company.

Estimators on Call Said: If you arent required by law to give an actual numbers estimate, why are you?

Here is what I would suggest...

Get a contingency contract drafted by a lawyer. In the contract, give them 3 day recision rights. Your contract with them is that you will do the roof for insurance proceeds. In that contract you want to make sure that the customer understands that by doing it for the proceeds that means anything you can collect from the insurance company plus their deductable.

You also need to have in the contract something written in (again if your state laws allow it) that allows you to speak with the insurance company in behalf of the customer.

Dont do any work on that job until the 3 days are over. Dont even open a file in the office.

Once that 3 days is up, get the adjuster scope, and immediately put in for all of the things the adjuster left off. (there will be thousands of dollars worth of items.) Call the adjuster and get a revised estimate from them, order the permit, and then get product delivered.

If the adjuster shows up with a different contractor, or suggests to the homeowner to find someone else after that initial 3 days, go back to the lawyer and sue them for interference with a contract. You will lock in more jobs and get paid faster. We write Xactimate estimates all day for people all over the nation that do this exact same thing.

Have any of you ever filed suit for this? It happens to us on a daily basis. We get calls from H/O's all the time that are mad because after everything is fine, the adjuster calls and tells them not to work with us because we use xm8 pricing and go after all scope items. It is definately something we would like to pursue. Thank you in advance for the advice and experiences.

RandyB1986 Said:

My problem seems to be some insurance companies are asking for estimates before the adjuster comes out.....then if I price a little high and insurance comes in lower....rather than customer calling to let me know what the insurance paid, they just get other estimates and show them contractors what the insurance paid, they do it for that and I lose out without a chance.

Your estimate should simply be... "I will do the work for insurance proceeds." The cost to the homeowner, regardless of the amount of the final claim, is their deductible. Somehow, folks out there seem to think, that in a disaster, there is some sort of benefit to taking a low bid. That is WRONG!!!

You don't shop for a price, you shop for a contractor. If you are doing it for Insurance proceeds, and your contract with the homeowner says you can go after the things the adjuster missed, (and that check is yours, not the homeowners) then that is all you need.

Now... there are some instances in some states, were you will need to change that a bit. There are laws out now that say only public adjusters and homeowners can negotiate with an insurance company, but you can work around that too.

Let me see if I have a contingency contract template that I can hunt down for you. If I can get it to you, it would just be a template though... You will need to consult a lawyer to make the corrections specific to the laws of your state, or it is just a signed piece of paper.

RandyB1986 Said: helping people get roof replacements only to have them go with another company! From now on I am going to start trying to have them sign some sort of commitment. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how I can do this? I dont want to scare a customer away by presenting a contingency contract before helping them....but maybe this is my only option.

My problem seems to be some insurance companies are asking for estimates before the adjuster comes out.....then if I price a little high and insurance comes in lower....rather than customer calling to let me know what the insurance paid, they just get other estimates and show them contractors what the insurance paid, they do it for that and I lose out without a chance.

Anyone have an agreement you present to your customers before working their claim? DO you mind sharing it with me at SSRB87@Yahoo.com.

I just drove by a job I had been working on getting for 3 weeks and a competitors sign is in the yard. The customer called for gutter repair and ended up needing roof, siding, gutters.......I bid it, got her the claim paid....and didnt even get called and told to fk off. Thanks for letting me vent.

so.....did anyone send you a contingency and 3 day recission to help ya out?

Dawg The handshake is in my hand and that usually is the contract between the sub, me, and the owner. Once upon a time . Back in the day when time wasn't like it is today. I had a fairly large roofing business. I stayed in contact with sub installers who were good craftsman. Over the years I have been able to keep them working for me because I pay them very well. When they do work for me I take care of them. NO problems. You get a really good price for the install. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

CIAK, that's very good to hear. I've thought about getting my adjuster license since you posted about it a few weeks back. I figured it would be something good to fall back on in case I get tired of this rat race once my ol' man calls it quits.

By subbing it out, do you mean that the contract is in your business' name and he is doing the work for you? I guess that would work if you really trusted the guy, but I have trouble finding reliable roofers!

I have the best of these two worlds. When I'm out getting paid handsomely by the insurance carriers for my invaluable contribution. I have a sub work for me on a handshake. I get home the job is done I collect and if I'm not called on to travel about the country being paid again very handsomely I will do a few repairs on a hand shake. Life is good. Now the very Lovely Mrs Ciak is with me traveling.Being paid very very handsomely. Bringing the best of home with me. I'm living much better than I deserve. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

shinglemonkey Said: I still to this day do zero residential roofs with a signed contract. Hell I still do some commercial roofs on a hand shake.

I did a handshake today and start tomorrow. I usually just get the job without that bit of formality, but this was a Judge, so I guess we needed something formal.