Hand Nailing Shingles

Robby Every time i see a roofer using a claw hammer,it makes me laugh. Or are you sinking 3 1/2" ? ie( framing)>>>

Arrrr, ahoy ther cuz , well shiver me monays ther, an all this time ole Jack be athinkin he was a loner ther he did for shuuuuure.>>>

Ottawa -

I'm still around - and we still have nail strippers. Just sold one to Canada last week.

Everyone needs a stripper or two for those days when only hand nailing will do.

www.nailstripper.com

Give me a shout. http://www.nailstripper.com

Jack>>>

Help. There was somebody on RCS, a few years ago selling this trough that hung around your neck, and it would spit out a row of nails between your two fingers, that was pretty slick i missed placed mine some time ago but it really did improve my speed i'm no slouch when it comes to hand nailing, look at the time you spend setting up your compressor, hoses, oiling them then at the end of the day put everything away ok so how much time do your really save? :blush:>>>

I consider the EG nails 'felt nails'. If you're nailing at 5 1/2" up, the nails get wet every time it rains. EG are gone in 8 years. And it's a bear trying to rid the deck of all those nail nubs.>>>

Yeah, Old School when im hand nailing on a roof theres always a guy that trys to feed me shingles. He just ends up slowing me down and breaking my rythm. lol Like you say a waste of time. If two men are doing the work with a gun then you have to double the one hand nailers output to compare. Or of course you could cut the two gun nailers output in half if you wanna get technical! lol TRG I've heard that crap about it being easier/faster to nail high when hand nailing but it simply is not true. I have no problem sticking my nails right dead on the line baby! The first time, every time. You can't be skeered your gonna bust a finger. Just do it! lol PS After busting a few fingers over the years its amazing how the mind and hands learn to work together in rythm! lol>>>

They cost twice as much, but you can get hdg coil nails. I'll never use zinc chromate again. Near the coast, ss only. They cost three times the hdg. which equals six times the zinc so-called "eg" nails. I held out against guns for nearly 20 years, all for the reasons mentioned. Was proud of it. I'm used to guns now. They're faster, no question about it, especially after you get old. In the hands of a hack, a coil nailer is a despicable tool of destruction. I will not, under any circumstances, allow guns to be used on recovers. Robby is right-on about the ergonomic problem with staples. That's why you almost always see old staple jobs having the staples driven at a 45. I personally don't like the gun action on anything less than an inch and a quarter nail. So hard to keep them from trying to tumble. I do hate the hoses. Never thought I would say this but you do get used to them.>>>

1) Does it make for a better job? Yes! However if i roofed the entire house myself then it wouldn't matter! Its mainly about the skill and pride in his work of the guy doing the installing. Some guys don't hand nail worth a chit either! lol If im the only gun running off the compressor then i can set the pressure for exactly what it should be for the particual roof decking im installing on. However if several roofers are hooked to the same compressor then it can be more difficult to keep the pressure consistent. In addittion most roofers dont really give a crap about the pressure and never even adjust it for each job depending on the hardness of the wood, what kind of shingles are being installed etc... 2)In general, how much slower is hand nailing than using a gun? Again it depends on the roofer. Most roofers these days are pitiful at hand nailing. They were born with a gun! lol They would be terrible slower at it. For me personally on a straight run, i can avg 3 sq. an hour hand nailing or 4 with a gun. ( thats a walkable roof ) Then theres the time setting up equipment if using a gun and adjusting the pressure etc. and breaking it all back down. Not to mention that dayum hose in the way half the time. So when all is said and done for me theres not a lot of difference. But for many its like day and night. 3) Are their many/any S.O.B.'s hand nailing shingles? I don't see any sob's hand nailing except on repairs! 4) How difficult do you think it would be to sell the idea of paying more to have a roof installed with hand nails? I think it would be extremely difficult to say this amount for gun nailed or this higher amount if you want it hand nailed. What exactly would you be saying? Something like well i can slop it for you Mr. Homeowner for X amount or do you a really good hand nail job for X higher amount? However i do believe its a great sales tool to say we hand nail ALL our roofs! But you better have some reallly good hand nailers to back that up! 5) I've always had the impression that the when hand nailing, I got more control over the placement and depth the nails are driven. Additionally, hot dipped galvanized nails are more corrosion resistant than electroplated galvanized nails. If you could charge enough more for hand nailing to offset your reduction in speed, do you think hand nailing could be effectively sold as a superior installation? Isn't this the same question as #4? lol But i will point out two of the biggest advantages of hand nailing as far as quality is concerned. No one EVER drives the nails through the shingles as in IMBEDDED in the shingle with a hammer! lol When you hit a crack between two deck boards or two sheets of plywood you can feel it when hand nailing but you never know it with a gun. That is if you have enough pride in your work and don't mind slowing down long enough to pull those nails back out and relocate them. If you dont do this then they will back out and puncture a hole in the shingle later down the road eventually causing a leak!

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There was a topic about nails staples hand nails etc. What is the better job. Well this goes against the current positions.... Staples when installed properly ie eg pressure correct straight not blown through the shingle one of the best fasteners . Many a super high wind small tornadoes events. Staples held when many a nailed roof gone . T/o shingles with nail on plywood bamn wham shazzamm gawn with just a grab from the corner drip and pull. Staples still stuck in the plywood bang bang bang all day long not putting them on driving and pulling the staples out. The nails a lot of the time come with the shingle.>>>

HOP , here is my opinion on what you are asking here.fwiw Some years ago I used air and never had a problem, but i had to constantly stay in everyones arse to keep em straight, it finally got to be to big of a hassel,maintenance,hauling everything around. On everyjob we wood have to take some time at the finish for one to walk the roof with one on the ground to look for fishlips, this wood take approx. 30 min. of extra time on a job.

Does it make for a better job?

Not always does handnailing make the job better,but for me, more times than not, it does. I have noticed that people with airguns tend to get in to big of a hurry, when this happens they lose touch with the fact that the nail has to be driven at a perfect 90* angle with the roof pitch....results fishlips everwhere, they also tend to arch the nails like a rainbow, instead of coming straight across the shingle....results, some nails will be placed above the tarline to far, in what i call the dead zone , or the areas where the shingles lap over each other, when this is done the nail,I have found, will push thru the top shingle, and not hold.

In general, how much slower is hand nailing than using a gun?

I think about 10% slower, but by the time you take to unload all the accessories that you need to use the airnailers,hookup ,setup, and get all on the roof, it balances out in time.

Are their many/any S.O.B.'s hand nailing shingles?

I have seen them around here doing both ways.

How difficult do you think it would be to sell the idea of paying more to have a roof installed with hand nails?

With a customer with some common sense , you could sell handnailing at a higher price. Sorry to say ,to many around here don't have much common sense anymore.

I've always had the impression that the when hand nailing, I got more control over the placement and depth the nails are driven. Additionally, hot dipped galvanized nails are more corrosion resistant than electroplated galvanized nails. If you could charge enough more for hand nailing to offset your reduction in speed, do you think hand nailing could be effectively sold as a superior installation?

YES,YES,YES,YES,YES ON ALL COUNTS EXCEPT FOR THE HOT DIPPED NAILS,them things will eat the meat off of the ol fingers in a days time.

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HOp; We have a company up here in St Pete that only hand nails. Not sure what he gets as far as price but he uses this as a sales pitch and obviously it works because hes been in biz for quite a while round here.>>>

People still do hand nailing and if you have a guy who can really hand nail, he doesnt go that much slower than a gun. I believe it does make for a better roof if the handnailing is done correctly. Its a dieing art where I live cause of the economy. Hard to sell someone on that when the guy in front of you wants to staple one on. I think you definitly have more control when hand nailing. Take hitting a piece of lumber behind your decking with a gun and you have to pull out your hammer anyway. better control over placement is also a plus I wish it could be sold easily cause that would be all I would sell.>>>