Hail Damage in Ohio

O.K. This will be the first time that I have to experience this. We have storm chasers that have moved into my area. Now, how does the local roofing contractor get ahead of these guys? We had hail come thru on the 7th of May 2010. I have been out with my wife and my one and only salesman hanging door hangers. These other guys bagged 50 roofs in one day, I am still dead in the water. Does anyone have any advice? This year is bad enough and with the other out of towners coming in and taking all the work it'll be a really tough year in our market in Northern Ohio.

Soldierboy

Was this the one?

TOUGH YEAR? COME ON MAN!!! IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE.

Learn the insurance game, it pays well. Don't tell anyone this but YOU CAN INSTALL QUALITY ROOFS AND BE A STORM CHASER.

Oh yeah another thing you can offer great service, great follow up, and even get this you can even warranty the work and follow through on all warranties. Oh yeah and you can also have an excellent BB rating, you can be licensed and have any necessary insurance.

You can be as good and reliable as a local roofing company. Oh yeah and if you are a storm chaser and a storm happens in your local area, you can now be the local roofer.

I want to say thanks for all the input. Some negative on the stormers some positive. (Somewhere) :-) What I have decided to do is walk the neighborhoods see who needs our assistance and show them our warranties vs the outside competition. I charge well above what the insurance company is willing to pay however the 3 roofs that we sold yesterday all have CertainTeed's 25 year warranty on them and cost the homeowner on average $2,200.00 above what the insurance company is paying them. They felt that a local company with crews that are on payroll and have health insurance, and EVEN workers compensation was worth coming out of pocket a few thousand dollars for. I only need 100-150 roofs per year to stay and maintain all of our overhead and have guys that make a decent (above average) wage scale. I may beef up our advertising outside of the storm area just a bit to buy a new truck and plow but God has granted us with enough work already to hit our marks no problem this year. With this storm it is very easy to see who is Greedy and who is out for the homeowner! I see alot of black trucks and signs with a name that is associated with someone that has gone out of business 3 times in ten years. (How is this legal?) I have also watched the local news and seen a company that blasted Storm Chasers but is working hand in hand with one. Ethics?? I entertained and even sat down with an outside guy. (Storm Chaser) He was nice, the company he represented has an A+ rating with the BBB and he promised the world on a silver platter. Seems he did find a company to work for. We will do really good for ourselves this year and keep with our mission statement and work our business model. One thing I couldn't do for this storm was sit down and figure out how to handle it. I will handle my customer base as I always have with my integrity and higher than average pricing. BTW what is average pricing??? How can anyone say that? If you have enough overhead, profit and pay decent wages you set your own average pricing to live by. Soldierboy

Roofguy Said: Ditto, Stephen.

I cant count the times I went to bat for the insured only to have them do something else with the money. Thats why we charge a percentage of the claim to represent them with the adjuster, then waive our fee if we do the roof. We take an unusual approach with the adjuster, which often involves an adversarial relationship and a burned bridge - so we have to get paid for that.

I have never created an adversarial relationship with an adjuster. I'm not sure that will serve anyone's interests in the long run. Can you expound on why it has worked for you?

Last week I crawled off the roof with the adjuster. We both agreed that there wasn't enough damage to replace the roof. I told him "I'll go ahead and break the good/bad news to the homeowner". The good news to the homeowner was that his roof was in good shape and will continue to protect his house and belongings for the next few years. I explained that he will have some form of reduced shelf life but that it was impossible to pinpoint exactly how much. I further explained that the adjuster was very professional in his assessment but couldn't find enough severe damage to justify a full roof replacement to his home office. I told him that there were no imminent problems that could lead to leaks and that I'd be willing to check back in a few years to make sure that his roof was doing the job that it was supposed to.

The homeowners reaction was positive. He was thankful that he didn't need a roof and was very appreciative that I had taken the time to represent him. We agreed that we would meet again in the future when he did need a roof. For me...that's a great customer to the data bank. I will keep in touch with him via mailings and when the day comes that he needs a roof replacement: I believe I have an inside track.

The adjuster was so pleased with my calm rational response that he offered to put my name on his list to provide "ladder assists". I accepted his offer. At this point, I am only a "backup" for that adjuster. He will have to use someone from the office pool first, if they are available but he wanted to keep my name handy because of my professionalism.

As far as the homeowners doing something else with the money instead of buying a roof. I have one right now that I will be heading to small claims court with. I'm going to test my contract and see how strong or weak their obligations are under the agreement that we've signed. It's a small contract and I really don't care either way what happens but I want to know what I am entitled to for the time I've put into an insurance contract. Stephen is offering to inspect a roof for $100 but I think my services would be worth anywhere from 500 to 1000, plus collection costs. Essentially, I'm wondering if I could win a settlement in court for what would amount to the deductible money that they save when they sign a different contract with another contractor after they've already agreed to award the work to me. I'd love to have them say in court "I was going to use Jim but another contractor agreed to do the roof for me and pay my deductible"! LOL!

Roofguy, I like the idea of using a percentage of the claim as a fee..what percentage is reasonable? Does it change based on the size, complexity of the roof?

Stephen Said: jim, I agree if a person chooses to spend their insurance settlement on a cruise- thats their perogative- i dont have much of a gripe there.

However- that little arrangement isnt just between the homeowner and the insurance company, is it?- that arrangement requires the involvement of contractors to come out and write proposals-some times multiple proposals-phone calls with insurance folks etc.----------------all of which is reasonable I suppose if the contractor is honestly and fairly in the running to secure a paying project

but when the homeowner has decided that they are going on a cruise instead- but continues to get quotes and multiple proposals from multiple contractors in some sort of game to get the best insurance check-isnt that homeowner really stealing the time and efforts of those contractors?-- I think so.

I am happy to bend over backwards to help people like Norma- but the folks looking me in the eye and KNOWING they are scamming me ???????? not so much.

stephen

Stephen, we obviously have two different approaches to the sales process for insurance deals. From my perspective, I don't see how I have ever been scammed. I never felt like I wasted any time and I don't understand how a homeowner could take advantage of me.

Perhaps our sales process is different. Our paperwork is obviously different. And of course, our price structure is different and that is perhaps the main reason why you wasted your time and I prospered and would be thrilled if another hailstorm landed in my neighborhood. In a sense, I would welcome the storm chasers because I would know that there would be another solid year or more of work and it would be quite easy to obtain.

Maybe the laws of our state make a difference too.

I've ran into some homeowners who have a stack of estimates already. Some I've sold, some I haven't but I still don't consider it a waste of my time. I've been selling my services since 1982 and I'm well educated on hearing "no" LOL. I know that I'll never get the yes's without the nos.

The best chance at landing a job is with homeowners who hear my presentation first. After I sit with them, chances are very high that I will have a signed contract. I will be planting a sign and there will be no further estimates from other contractors. Even if they do entertain other contractors, we will have an agreement, therefore, the other contractor's numbers really don't matter to me.

I don't know your numbers and I don't know your neighbors but I suspect that your closing ratio would have been significantly higher if you worked the deals from the approach we take. You still would have lost a significant amount because your pricing is higher, but you wouldn't have been competing with storm chasers, you would have only been competing with the overage that you charge vs the insurance payout. I'm sure that you could have overcome that minor challenge by stressing the value of your service and dividing their out of pocket expenses by the 30 years that the shingles will last. After all, who wouldn't spend $100 per year to get the quality of services that you provide? That's only 27 cents per day!

an

jim, I agree if a person chooses to spend their insurance settlement on a cruise- that's their perogative- i don't have much of a gripe there.

However- that little arrangement isn't just between the homeowner and the insurance company, is it?- that arrangement requires the involvement of contractors to come out and write proposals-some times multiple proposals-phone calls with insurance folks etc.----------------all of which is reasonable I suppose if the contractor is honestly and fairly in the running to secure a paying project

but when the homeowner has decided that they are going on a cruise instead- but continues to get quotes and multiple proposals from multiple contractors in some sort of game to get the best insurance check-isn't that homeowner really stealing the time and efforts of those contractors?-- I think so.

A day or so after the hail storm- before it really started to get crazy here-but when we knew it was gonna get "busy"- my wife and I had a sit down discussion. I have lived directly in the center of the hail dammaged neighborhood for 48 years now-raised my family here- probably die here-so we knew that no matter what- the right thing for us to do was to bend over backwards and do our best to help our neighbors and to treat them MORE than fairly- because i am gonna live here another 40 years or so!--- so yes- in some regaurds i did allow myself to be taken advantage of

however- if the same hailstorm had missed my neighborhood- maybe hit the next ward over-or on the other side of town- i would have done things differently and without as much community spirit

i remember on customer very well- i first roofed her house in Oct. 2000. you can stand in the street in front of her house and throw a baseball and hit 7 houses I have roofed PRIOR to the hailstorm( you can go to MANY places in my neighborhood and do similar things) anyhow- lady calls me SOBBING on the phone- I go over to see her-she is crying, sobbing, drunk-------hammered actually. at this point she is well into her 70's BTW-Storm chasers working the neighborhood had come down the street and "inspected" her roof and told her that "due to the severe hail damage to the roof the structure was in imminent danger of collapse" if she didn't contract with them to replace her roof immediately........ storm chasers = vermin in my opinion

I am happy to bend over backwards to help people like Norma- but the folks looking me in the eye and KNOWING they are scamming me ???????? not so much.

gotta run- I am on day 2 of a 4 day roof that I really wanted to get done Yesterday- weather not cooperating. Best wishes all, stephen

Stephen Said: Jed- you dont know what you dont know! the people i refer to-in ordinary circumstances are some of the nicest people you will ever meet- but when push comes to shove----------- policemen,firemen, nurses,school teachers, retired folks,accountants, dentists, bankers-- if they found your wallet on the side walk they would instantly return it- but if they see a chance to work an insurance scam- they wont hesitate either.

I cant tell you the number of people we wrote multiple proposals for- bent over backwards to help-and then they took the insurance money and went on a CRUISE-or bought a new car-or remodeled the kitchen-instead of fixing or replacing the roof. in their mind- dinking the insurance company is fair game-and it never occurs to them that they screwed me out of time and money on the effort I put into their proposals- that they had NO intention of ever following through on-they just wanted the insurance money.

At any rate- Jim has known me for over 10 years-and he can tell you that i have largely lead a rather Norman Rockwell Idyllic existence- but I learned a LOT in the last 2 years about the people I have lived among for 48 years

truth is- they are probably very little different than the people YOU live among-as for myself- I wouldnt have known it if the hail storm hadnt revealed it.

Best wishes all-Stephen

Stephen, congrats on your son graduating! Doing it without debt speaks for itself. You, and he, obviously put together a great plan and followed through with it.

This probably isn't the right thread...but since you brought it up...lets discuss whether you got screwed by the people who didn't buy...or you screwed yourself LOL! Or, maybe lets just discuss how you might approach this same situation if you ever encounter it again.

You've already indicated that you intend to charge $100 for an inspection. I'm assuming that includes a written proposal/report of your findings. That's not a bad strategy for someone that has prices that are significantly higher than the average and expects a lower closing ratio. This will eliminate the time wasted walking and measuring a roof. But, do you think that there might be a way to improve your closing ratio, even if your prices are significantly higher?

As for those customers that decided to take the insurance check and spend it elsewhere...that is their prerogative. They can do that if they want but it does come with a price and I let them know about the downside. I just had this conversation with a lead last week. I warned him about the ramifications. I gently explained that if he doesn't replace the roof, the insurance will keep the significant amount withheld for the recoverable depreciation. I also explained that he would be violating the terms of his insurance agreement and mortgage agreement regarding the maintenance of his home. I further explained that the insurance company would not honor any future claim if it involved anything to do with his damaged roof. They would use the negligence clause to deny any future claims even if the entire house was ruined in a tornado or windstorm that allowed water infiltration. I warned him that any claims in the future regarding mold would be denied.

I don't know what my customer intends to do, and I really don't care, but it sounds like some of your customers, who didn't buy a roof, needed to hear the "rest of the story".

Jed- you don't know what you don't know! the people i refer to-in ordinary circumstances are some of the nicest people you will ever meet- but when push comes to shove----------- policemen,firemen, nurses,school teachers, retired folks,accountants, dentists, bankers-- if they found your wallet on the side walk they would instantly return it- but if they see a chance to work an insurance scam- they won't hesitate either.

I can't tell you the number of people we wrote multiple proposals for- bent over backwards to help-and then they took the insurance money and went on a CRUISE-or bought a new car-or remodeled the kitchen-instead of fixing or replacing the roof. in their mind- dinking the insurance company is fair game-and it never occurs to them that they screwed me out of time and money on the effort I put into their proposals- that they had NO intention of ever following through on-they just wanted the insurance money.

At any rate- Jim has known me for over 10 years-and he can tell you that i have largely lead a rather "Norman Rockwell" Idyllic existence- but I learned a LOT in the last 2 years about the people I have lived among for 48 years

truth is- they are probably very little different than the people YOU live among-as for myself- I wouldn't have known it if the hail storm hadn't revealed it.

Best wishes all-Stephen

jim, I know we have discussed this before but for the benefit of people who haven't previously heard my drivel, LOL

Out of those 250"inspections"- If I had wanted to sell 240- i could have easily sold 240- but they would have been at the insurance companies price- not MY price

the insurance companies price-was around $280 per square-which would be BELOW my actual cost-and maybe $200 below what I might typically sell the job for.

I remember one house-it's exactly one block from my house- it had recently been in a local "parade of gardens" tour-really extensively landscaped etc. 2 layers of aspahlt shingles over a layer of wood shingles ,skip sheathing to be re-decked etc. One day in the fall the insurance adjuster calls me and says" I can't allow you to charge over $290/sq. for this roof"- i would have loved to see his face when I explained to him that he didn't "ALLOW" me to do anything-and that in fact I had already roofed the house AND been paid for it in full by the homeowner over a month previously.

the water thing is a cultural thing maybe- here i am talking about people who go from their air conditioned house to the air conditioned car to the air conditioned office and back home- they really don't know what it's like to sweat for a living-they just don't know what they don't know

BTW- my oldest son graduated college on sunday !- I am proud of him- but I also an pleased with myself. roofing has allowed me to put my wife through college AND put my 2 sons K-12 through private schools AND put the oldest son through 4 years of private college AND he graduates without oweing a dime and the younger son is putting himself through HVAC school AND I own a 3700 sq, ft. brick tudor- not bad for a dumb roofer and 20 plus years humping shingles up a ladder-but I did it at MY price- not the insurance companies price-it's been a good life! Best wishes, Stephen

Stephen, your neighbors must be mean people. I get offered water or soda at 90% of the estimates that I go on here in TX. Of course, since it's usually over 100, we are always sweating and dehydrating LOL.

I know you have a much different business model than I so anything I would offer is meaningless. I will say that if I had 250 people invite me over to inspect their roof, I most likely would have signed 240 contracts LOL.

I also agree about stepping up the marketing in the neighborhoods that weren't hit by hail. It's a good idea but we are/were so busy in the hail areas that we don't have time. That pretty much proves your theory.

Your strategy to charge $100 per inspection is smart too. You could further that idea by carrying a few tarps and some sticks of battens and be ready to put emergency tarps on for $300 each or so.

soldierboy, I am down in Akron-and we had a major hail storm here june 8 2007. I will tell you what I did-what I learned--- and what I would do in the future if history repeats itself, LOL. also- my apologies to Jim-who heard me whine about this for 2 years on another forum----------- june 8th my son and I had just come home from finishing a roof when the hailstorm hit my neighborhood with the proverbial baseball sized hail-watched chunks of ice fall outtof the sky and bounce off the hood of my truck-watched clusters of hail-3-4 baseball sized pieces fused together in one big lump hit the driveway-shatter and bounce 8 ft. up into the air-listened to it all bounce off my roof-------

This happened in MY neighborhood- where I have lived my entire life and where for over 20 years over 80% of my work has come within 8,10,12 blocks of my home. Here is what you need to know 1) storm chasers are vermin-they really are despicable-and there is NOTHING you can do about it-don't waste another moment of your mental energy even thinking about storm chasers

2) you ARE going to be flush with work-regaurdless of how many jobs the storm chasers book-you are going to have more work than you can handle----------how you deal with this will make or break you

3)almost everyone you personally know is dishonest. your family,your neighbors,your friends,your fellow church members, the parents of the kids you coached in baseball----etc.-almost all of them are dishonest and will screw you without hesitation if they think it will make them $125, LOL

4) In 2007-when the hailstorm hit- I was already booked out 3 months in advance BEFORE the storm-After the storm- I would get up at about 4:30 AM- do paper work-roof from 7:30 untill about 2:00-and then inspect roofs from 2:00 untill dark. this was my biggest mistake- inspecting roofs---huge,HUGE HUGE mistake-and that's where other peoples dishonesty comes into play-and they really don't think they are being dishonest

5) that summer I stopped counting after climbing on my 250th roof to inspect- i actually climbed on many others. I had people come in actual tears and cry on the doorstep of my personal residence begging me to come inspect their roof and to tell them what to do.- Out of over 250 "inspections'-exactly 3 people offered me so much as a glass of water when I was at their home.- remember- this is MY neighborhood- these people are my family,my friends, my neighbors,my fellow church members- I felt an obligation to help them-to the point that i was working 16-17 hours a day at some points-almost always constantly de-hydrated-and 3 people offered my a glass of water????

some one you know- you have known their entire family your whole life calls you and says" Steve- I would really appreciate it if you would look at my roof and tell me what to do''- they appreciate you alright- they appreciate you bont won't offer you a glass of water????

6) you should know- that for 10 years I have tracked everything I know how many hours each year I work" production"- i know how many hours are overhead- I know how many leads I get-and from where- i know what My closing ratio is over-all- and I know what it is broken down by direct referalls vs. response to adds etc.-so i know that for months I worked an extra 6-8 hours PER DAY for FREE to serve the members of my community and I know I can look anyone in the neighborhood i meet square in the eye because I did the "right thing"- but I also know there are people who screwed me-and scurry down other aisles at the supermarket to avoid meeting me because THEY know they acted dishonestly

7)- what would I do differently?- funny you should ask. this past tuesday I ran into a fellow contractor I have known loosely for 8 years- both professionally and personally.- this past fall he had a bit of a nervous breakdown arising out of the stress of the last 2 years of hails storm work- he is a gentleman with a conscious-and he has taken things hard.

we talked about another guy we know locally by reputation- the local story is that he sold the rights to use his companies name to a storm chasing outfit. at the time he had a good reputation and a good business-hailstorm on june 8th- by august we had heard he had 6 lawsuits against him( with 2 months or swo of the storm!)- I heard this past March that he had died-less than 3 years after the storm-guy in his 40's-multiple law suits etc.- storm chasers gone- left the local guy holding the bag

anyhow- what would I do differently?

historically my closing rate is 52%- my closing rate on storm work that I actually submitted proposals for?-8%

when I look back on the roofs we actually got- I can see I was ALWAYS gonna get those roofs no matter what-always!------ all the other inspections and proposals were a waste of time-and ruined my life for over a year so A) I would charge $100 for every inspection-paid up front when I arrive at the house and before I climb on the roof-no pay----no inspection! I will credit the $100 towards any roofing work we actually contract-but no free inspections. that move alone, i believe would have weeded out 90% of the free estimates we were involved in

B)- I did zero additional marketing within the hail struck neighborhood. I STILL would do ZERO marketing in the hailstruck neighborhood- instead I would have stepped up my targeted and specific marketing in neighborhoods across town and well out of the hail neighborhood. Every "roofer" in north america was infesting my neighborhood- but across town was where the real opportunities were-that's actually where I concentrate my efforts now.

My very best wishes to you, stephen

Put out some ads and get you some storm salesmen,they would much rather work for a local reputable outfit.Its a lot easier sale,your not going to beat them.But if you advertize for door knocking storm chasing salesmen they will come to you,but it will cost you they are going to want to split the profit after the office cost.And get you some more crews to handle the volume,you will need to learn exactaware or find you someone to do your claims.What you want is a salesmen that knows what hes doing with the insurance adjusters and is willing to work with you.Do not hook up with someone that is bringing in his own crews,they are just going to try and use you and your name.

Pool your ad money with other local roofing companies, then take out large ads promoting the local companies. Educate the public. Its a lot easier for 10 guys to put up $1000 each then 1 guy putting up 10,000.

We recently had a local roofer purchase a full page ad and the entire ad was a court ruling from Minnesota against the Miami based storm chaser who was ripping local people off. Needless to say, they had signs everywhere....now they are far and few between.

Research the storm chaser companies that are in your area. Many of them have numerous complaints, lawsuits, bankruptcy and have operated under many different names.

Do your homework, then educate the public. That is the only way I feel this will ever change.

Mike M. Said: Do you mean the 7th of June 2009?

I'm not as worried as I was this morning and last night, however YES I am now a storm chaser in my own back yard. :-) I figured that our contracts would have to change a bit to get the homeowner off the market, try and kick the adjusters around a bit and see what we can do. Our referral base has been notified that there are out of town marketers coming in to take their business. I figure that thru facebook, emails, letters to our customer base, phone calls, and door hangers amonst newspaper ads will be enough to get the work that we need to survive. Figure that we will have to split our crews into smaller repair crews in a year when the roofs that professionals didn't get to touch start leaking. Plenty of money fixing the mistakes of others! But, we aren't going to just lay down and let these out of towners take our market share either! Heck, I wouldn't mind a team of professional storm chasers to sell the roofs and let us install them. That would work!!

The homeowner pays only the deductible.So it's a matter of who knocks on his door first.As far as those contracts they sign they're not legally binding so they get broken all the time.