Photo of the month pics -

Is morality just cost based OS ? I'm not trying to pick a fight with you OS. I ask the question to our roofing community as a whole. The potential of injury and or fatality. Do we then proceed by reducing the debate to economic issues? Certainly, when faced with claims for compensation and loss of life and/or limb, courts do make evaluations in monetary terms. This is a given fact. Can these be used to determine what our roofing community would consider an acceptable cut off point in terms of safety? Is there a fundamental difference between(after the fact)post facto compensation resulting from an accident, and a deliberate decision not to enhance safety because the cost is greater than the perceived benefits? B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Great post guys. Like the poetry egg. Started me thinking of the ethics, morality of safety. All of our issues in life are value based. Morality & ethics play huge roles in business and our personal lives. The question I see with these photo's ,.. Is it ever justified to accept safety process on economic grounds? Or is there an absolute moral obligation on operators to improve safety whatever the cost? When the safety hazards involve potential injury even possible fatalities then the nature of the question changes fundamentally. A whole new moral and ethical dimension comes into the equation. This is a great subject. Roofing where injury is inevitable and near fatal injury possible.

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I've done a few barns, but the client was very concerned about dropping nails or fasteners in to the barn because they didn't want the cattle to eat the nails wich would cause a medical problem .... Think about it?

I agree it is indispensable, but common sense includes reading carefully.

Man that roof is nothing, ropes,scissorlifts, etc etc, ya right what a joke, it all boils down to COMMON SENSE..period,and if that roof was "200' " up, well duh I would wear a rope, hense, COMMON SENSE, I've seen more guys wipe out because of ropes,and also there's a thing called ACCIDENTS,cant avoid them they happen, and i've seen guys with or without ropes have them, so if your going to roof,get some damn COMMON SENSE!! JMO rant rant

Great post as usual by egg. "Ropes are for working very very slowly, hanging yourself, or for towing things." :laugh: We usually use ropes on anything 2 stories or more, but really it's a case by case basis. Some contractors require us to tie off on all jobs, many times they make the job more dangerous.

I'll third Mike's second of Woody's statement about that first pic.

I'm sure by present standards (especially as of this year's changes) I am not pol. correct but I would have set 2X6 brackets at the eave. Wood shingle tear-offs get fluffy and slip-slidy. I've done thousands of squares of them, new and tear-off. In the old days, we would take a bundle on each hip, walk a 16 " plank from a scissorbed, and go straight out across skip sheathing, making contact with only rafter-supported one-by. With shakes we'd cross over felt concealing the one-by but it was 1X6 with 4" gaps, not 1X4 with 4" gaps as shown. You get smart feet. After awhile you live for it, and when you think accordion skin on shin bones, it is amazing how few times you so much as even crack any of that dealboard they call "dimensional lumber. " That looks like a gambrel roof to me and I personally feel it is too much drop to keep a guy confident with nothing but a 2X4 laid flat. That's a site just made for a scissorbed right alongside the eave. Fall into that and you're in at less than six feet.

The tougher task is sheathing it. Scissorbed again. Right out of the truck. Pc, no, tactically sound, absolutely. Ropes are for working very very slowly, hanging yourself, or for towing things.

I won't take a job downtown anymore. Too restrictive. Regs, regs, and more regs. I will be the mouse, frozen in space on one toe until the the blind python sniffs its way down the road, flicking its tongue in search of a clumsier victim, groping its way along an endless winding path of wheelchair ramps, listening intently for squeaks.

Dorothy Parker: "Oh I should like to ride the waves, a roaring buccaneer, a cutlass banging at my knees, a dirk behind my ear, and when my captives chains would clank I'd howl with glee and drink, and then, fling out the quivering plank and watch the beggars sink." Just kidding of course, or am I? From time to time one might never know.

Of course I have hands like grappling hooks so I hold myself to a higher standard.

If it were two stories, in town, over pavement and pedestrians, I wouldn't touch that job without scaffolding. But it isn't.

As far as illegales you can find them outside home Depots........

Verbose and bombastic typical Jedd now Fl. I'm not clear on the accusation? "My safety record is unblemished ciak What's yours? Oh, thats right.....you don't have one." Please clarify the comment with facts. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Put yer hands on yer hips OS, now with a scowl on yer face, in a matronly manner, lift a hand and wag yer finger at yer victim as you deliver yer scolding. Now take a look at yerself and ask WTF are you to be giving out such stick? "no ropes, eeeek, no scaffold, double eeeek, what were you thinking?".....gimme a break As for falling 9ft and screwing up yer wrists "accidents are avoidable, forget the alibi". I knew a fella that fell 32ft through a deadlight and left this planet. HE WAS WALKING BACKWARDS. If you have your head screwed on and are aware of your surrounding you will not have an "accident" If alarm bells were going off when you pulled up on site and saw the roof, then corrections would be made or you wouldn't be going up the ladder in the first place. There isn't one of us here, except ciak (who wouldn't know the top side of a roof from Alice's looking glass) who hasn't jumped at the job at hand without a second thought. I take woodys point about stepping on spaced sheathing and that had occured to me when I saw the pic. Again, if you are walking that roof and stepping on open board insted of a rafter then you deserve what you get. Common sense prevails. A new poster comes up here, puts up some pics and y'awll flame him like he's a child?? Dare to suggest that they are a bunch of idiots who work illegally with complete disregard to their own safety? Oh, and we all pay jacked up w/c because of the likes of them, yeah.....nice No wonder only three people post 90% of the threads. WTF?? Get over yourselves.

My safety record is unblemished ciak Not one accident save for a cut with a hook blade in close to thirty yrs, for me and for every member of the crews I have run over those years. What's yours? Oh, thats right.....you don't have one.

On the surface it appears Fl is just making a point to try to get some traction. I think that is because I have become calcified and need some thawing out when it comes to his post or reply’s The more I think about it I see a point. Who decides what is safe for your crews? I don’t believe the decision is made callously or with malice. When making safety decisions do you use some kind of meticulous formulae Are guys with calculators involved? Or do you just go “Humph” looks like it doesn’t require any special equipment just a good healthy respect of heights. If someone is up there and thinks he needs safety equipment shouldn’t they ask for it? How do you make safety decisions for you and your crew???

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Old School Said: Holy shit, tell me you and your men are not just standing on that mansard with nothing beneath you! We would set scaffold frames to the bottom so that we had somewhere to drop the debris, and also a place to work from for safetys sake at least.

In the end, it is much faster and a whole lot cheaper than trying to train a new roofer to replace the one that was killed falling off the roof!

No doubt, and if he were a union crew and had all the time in the world to fk around and get paid for it then he prolly would. That thing ain't but 17ft off the ground and trailing ropes and harnesses all over it would be more of a hazard than not. He has staging planks at the eave anyways. As for "faster and cheaper"-- bullshit. His crew would be tail lights before your bunch of overweight union lifers had even set up their "scaffold"

Nice assumptions there PC. You figured out from a couple of pics that they are a bunch of monkeys who have a dangerous work ethic and cheat the taxman. Where'd you earn the creds to make that claim?

.......good grief, f/kin choke on the sanctimony in here

Maintenance Man thought it was a roof leak ... Fought us all summer on it has to be a roof leak ...

Condensation was so heavy it dripped outside and froze ....

All i can say is wow! LOL

A really weird way to flash a chimney. Counter is supposed to be lead. Is there any tinner's wings on that thing at all?