By Emma Peterson. 

Learn about the nuances of the issues arising in the industry through technical bulletins. 

Host Megan Ellsworth met up with Kenneth Klein in Season 5, Episode 55 of Roofing Road Trips™. Kenneth has over 38 years of experience in the industry through his work at the global engineering firm Simpson Gumpertz & Heger and has been a part of Western States Roofing Contractors Association (WSRCA)’s technical committee for over four years now. 

As a member of the Western States Technical Committee, Kenneth writes bulletins which contain critical information for contractors in the field. One example of this is his paper on the potential for condensation build-up in wood-framed parapets. Condensation issues in this context are due to improper installation by the original builder, not the roofer who is often the first phone call when the problem leads to mold and other environmental hazards. Kenneth went on to elaborate, saying, “Roofers have no responsibility, but it will really work in the world of litigation that they brought it to someone's attention...It's going to be showing that they were trying to do their due diligence, at least trying to help the project.” 

Kenneth has also written a bulletin about podium deck expansions and a summary of the happenings at American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). The latter is an annual publication allowing members of the industry to easily stay up to date and be informed of new developments.  

The Western States Technical Committee members are consistently producing more bulletins with members, for example Kenneth writes eight a year! All these bulletins and more are available in the Western States' Technical Resources section of their website. Kenneth emphasized the depth of the resources, saying, “If you're a member of Western States, you have access to all the technical resources from the last 20 years... My predecessors did some amazing work.” 

Read the transcript or Listen to the podcast to find out more about WSRCA’s technical bulletins.

By Emma Peterson. 

WSRCA’s technical bulletins build a bridge between contractors and experts to address industry issues.  

For Season 5, Episode 55 of Roofing Road Trips™, host Megan Ellsworth met with Kenneth Klein to discuss the Western States Roofing Contractors Association (WSRCA)’s technical committees and bulletins. Kenneth has been working at Simpson Gumpertz & Heger for over 38 years now, and currently he is a senior principal focusing on roofing, waterproofing and building envelopes. He started working with WSRCA in 2019 and explained that they brought him in as a source of technical information, both for verbal questions and written bulletins. 

Kenneth is not the only expert brought in by WSRCA for consulting, he explained, “There's four different committees — industry, low-slope, steep-slope and waterproofing — and we get together twice a year to review various concepts and ideas and problems that people are seeing in the industry.” From there, the committees determine which topics they will write a technical bulletin about. Kenneth personally writes eight a year and described the process, saying, “It's as much my choice and their choice. We work collaboratively, and what I put together is their content.”  

Recently, he wrote a bulletin pointing out a common design issue in wood-framed parapets that leads to condensation build up that causes contractors issues. His goal was to, “Provide help in designing these systems at the same time stressing that it's not the roofer's responsibility.” His company Simpson Gumpertz & Heger’s position as a partner and consultant to many companies gives him plenty of experience in helping the industry and Kenneth fell into this position naturally. He elaborated, “I've really enjoyed it. It's my way of giving back to the industry, and at the same time, it's fun to educate people.”  

Read the transcript or Listen to the podcast to find out more about Kenneth and WSRCA’s technical bulletins.

By Dani Sheehan. 

Learn from the leading technical authority at WSRCA on wooden parapets and how to mitigate condensation potential. 

In a recent episode of Roofing Road Trips, Megan Ellsworth sits down with Kenneth Klein from the Western States Roofing Contractors Association (WSRCA) to discuss his latest paper on the condensation potential within wood-framed parapets. A member with Western States for the last four years, Ken has been with Simpson Gumpertz and Heger for 38 years, specializing in waterproofing, building envelopes and roofing. He was brought into WSRCA for the technical bulletins he develops and other technical input when needed. 

His latest bulletin focuses on wood-framed parapets and the potential for condensation buildup. Unfortunately, many roofers are accused of using failed roofing membranes, when design can affect this problem equally and roofers have little to no control over that. He wanted to bring attention to the issue to help in improving the design of these systems and inform roofers since they are always the first to receive a phone call. 

To help highlight the problem for those that have not read the paper, he starts by explaining condensation as a volume of air that holds a certain amount of moisture depending on warm or cold temperatures. He further explains, “So I’m showing you a sponge right now, and as it gets cold, you might squeeze out water. So this volume of air that gets in the cavity of a parapet all of a sudden gets cold because there's no way to keep it warm at night.” When the moisture level in the parapet exceeds 19 percent, it can lead to mold buildup or deterioration of the wood over time which will ultimately break down the structure. 

Rest assured, there are precautions you can take to help mitigate this problem. Ken emphasizes, “The bottom line is, you don’t want air from the building or the structure to get up into the parapet.” He provides solutions such as sealing off the cavity or ensuring ventilation by using vapor-permeable underlayment.  

Listen to the full podcast to learn more about solutions for condensation buildup and find access to technical resources on a variety of roofing topics.

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Kenneth Klein from the Western States Roofing Contractors Association. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro/Outro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today. 

Megan Ellsworth: Hello, everyone. My name is Megan Ellsworth here at rooferscoffeeshop.com, and I am here on a roofing road trip to see Ken Klein from the Western States Roofing Contractors Association. Hi, Ken. How are you doing?

Kenneth Klein: Good. How are you?

Megan Ellsworth: Doing well. I'm really excited to chat with you. Let's dive right in and have you just introduce yourself and what you do at Western States.

Kenneth Klein: Yeah, sure. I've been with Western States for only four years now, but with Western States I'm also at Simpson Gumpertz & Heger. I'm a senior principal at Simpson Gumpertz & Heger. I've been there for 38 years. It's the only job I've ever had. Roofing, waterproofing, building envelopes, that's what I specialize in. Western states brought me in. I've had a great time working with them, developing technical bulletins, and providing them with technical input when they have questions.

Megan Ellsworth: That's great. Awesome. Wow, you said 38 years. Look at you. That's a long time. Amazing. So can you tell us a little bit how you work with the Western States Technical Committee to prioritize technical topics?

Kenneth Klein: Yeah, it is an interesting process of my interest in various topics and then the committees. There's four different committees. Industry, low-slope, steep-slope, and waterproofing, and we get together twice a year, and we review various concepts and ideas and problems that people are seeing in the industry and we determine which ones we want to write technical bulletins for. So I write up eight technical bulletins a year, and it's as much my choice and their choice. We work collaboratively, and what I put together is their content. It's a fun process of developing and researching various technical issues.

Megan Ellsworth: That's great. What a great resource you're providing as well for the industry.

Kenneth Klein: Yeah, it's something my company, Simpson Gumpertz & Heger, was developed by three MIT professors 65 years ago, and giving back to the industry is a really important component of what every partner is supposed to do. So I've really enjoyed it. It's my way of giving back to the industry, and at the same time, it's fun to educate people. It's fun to keep projects out of litigation if you can.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kenneth Klein: It's a great way of working with and learning, and I've had a great time because I've learned as much as they do. I've gotten a lot out of this group.

Megan Ellsworth: That's fantastic. I love the back and forth, the give and take. So your recent paper on condensation potential within wood-framed parapets is very important. Can you tell us a little bit about it?

Kenneth Klein: Yeah, this is something that happens in the roofing industry of roofers being accused of having a failed roof membrane when it is as much a problem of poor design. They don't have any responsibility for stopping moisture from getting into the parapets. That's part of the original design. So sometimes parapets degrade because moisture from the building gets trapped in the parapet and then condenses and leads to deterioration, and the first phone call is always to the roofer. So it was just pointing out an issue that happens in the industry and saying, "Even though it's not the roofer's responsibility, they should at least be aware of the issue of how the parapets are designed so that they can ultimately bring it to someone's attention, even though it's not their responsibility, but just letting people know that this might be a problem in the long run." So it was trying to provide help in designing these systems at the same time stressing that it's not the roofer's responsibility.

Megan Ellsworth: For someone that hasn't read the paper. What can condensation do to wooden frames?

Kenneth Klein: Yeah. Condensation is, first you have to think about a volume of air, an air volume. Air can hold so much moisture, and when the air is warm, it holds more moisture. And when it's cold, it holds less moisture. So I'm showing you a sponge right now, and as it gets cold, you might squeeze out water. So this volume of air that gets in the cavity of a parapet all of a sudden gets cold because there's no way to keep it warm at night. For instance, it's warm in the day, lots of holds, lots of moisture, but at night that air volume actually gets squeezed by the cool air that's around the parapet, and it squeezes out some moisture, and that moisture gets absorbed by the wood. Once you get moisture content over 19% in the wood, that starts leading to problems, especially over 25% moisture content in the wood and the framing. Then you start getting mold and deterioration, leading to the breakdown of the structure.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh, God, oh, man, that is just the worst. That's the last thing you want. To be blamed for that mold infestation, that would just suck. So I hope all you roofing contractors out there are listening carefully. What are some ways to prevent this condensation that you found through your research?

Kenneth Klein: The bottom line is, you don't want air from the building or the structure to get up into the parapet. So it's either sealing it off, and sealing it off is the best way, and using a spray foam of two inches of closed-cell spray foam at the roof line to make that cavity basically sealed off. But then also venting that category in some way. Venting, the easiest way is to use a vapor-permeable roof... Not roof, but wall underlayments or wall weather barriers that lets a little bit of moisture out that might collect still in the parapet. Sometimes you could also put vents in, however, and that would also help, but it's really sealing off at the roof line, and the best way to seal off is spray foam. Close-cell spray foam is probably the best way.

Megan Ellsworth: Okay. That's great to know. What is some good advice you can give to contractors on this subject? Maybe spray foam manufacturers they should reach out to?

Kenneth Klein: They should really... When they are bidding on a project, they look at the roof drawings, they look at the details. It's a very quick review just to say, "Have they accommodated a method to close off the parapet, stopping moisture from getting into the parapet?" It's just a quick review. They can easily let the general contractor know and say, "We've got a concern here. It's not our responsibility, but we've got a concern." It's just trying to solve a problem that might be occurring down the road so they don't get brought into a lawsuit that they have no responsibility for. They're not doing anything to... They have nothing to do with the building of the parapet, but they'll be brought in just because it will look like a roof-related problem ultimately. So they're just protecting themselves down the road. They can do that review very quickly, just when they look at the detail for the first time and understand, "Is it sealed off at the roof line or not?"

Megan Ellsworth: Is there a way for a roofing contractor to get ahead of any potential litigation?

Kenneth Klein: It sure would help if they just brought it to the general contractor's attention. A quick email. Email's as good as a letter now in this litigious world that we live in.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Kenneth Klein: We'll tell them that they tried. They didn't build it. They have no responsibility, but it will really work in the world of litigation that they brought it to someone's attention. If it was disregarded, once again, since they didn't have to build it, they're not really going to be brought in. It's going to be showing that they were trying to do their due diligence, at least trying to help the project. That really helps.

Megan Ellsworth: So if a contractor is really engaged with this podcast right now, I hope you are, contractor, listening out there, where can they find some of your other papers?

Kenneth Klein: They're all in the Western States' Technical Resources section. If you're a member of Western States, you have access to all the technical resources that have been done for the last 20 years. It includes things like... My predecessor did some amazing work on details. The details to this day are just fantastic. The details are for low-slope, steep-slope, and below-grade waterproofing. There's just some amazing work that was done. There's excellent... Other bulletins that were done by my predecessor, we're working on some right now that are all very interesting from waterproofing. Waterproofing expansion joints on podium decks just got done. We've done work with high-density polyiso cover boards, both lab work and analytical work, to show that they're a very viable alternate to conventional cover boards. So it's been a fun process of just trying to develop these things.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. When is your next paper going to be released?

Kenneth Klein: Actually, I think the podium deck expansion joint one comes out this month.

Megan Ellsworth: Fabulous.

Kenneth Klein: There's a summary of ASTM as a firm. Once again, my firm sends a lot of people to ASTM, and we summarize what's going on at ASTM. Those are standards that are developed, which are good to see, but the whole process is there. So we have a paper describing that development and where the standards are. So that goes out each year also, so the industry members can really be kept informed.

Megan Ellsworth: That's great. Thank you so much for your time with me today. Do you have any last words for contractors out there working with the wood-framed parapets?

Kenneth Klein: I guess there is something because we're seeing the sensitivity of various materials, engineered lumber versus conventional rough-sawn lumber. There's some issues that we've seen. So we do talk about this in other technical bulletins. So the use of engineered lumber is something to be aware of and understand how to work with it. But Western States provides a lot of input, and it's a great group of people, and it's been fun working with them.

Megan Ellsworth: That's great. Thank you again for your time. To all you contractors out there listening, you can find all of this information and more on the Western States Roofing Contractors Association directory on rooferscoffeeshop.com and askaroofer.com. So go check it out, read this paper, and get informed and ready to go for the next job. Ken, thank you so much. I hope you have a great week, and we'll be hearing and listening to you next time on Roofing Road Trips from rooferscoffeeshop.com.

Kenneth Klein: Thanks so much.

Intro/Outro: Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Rob Winkle of Western States Roofing Contractors Association. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I am road tripping down south today to meet with one of my dear friends, someone who I've known for a long time in the industry, and I don't know just brings something amazing to everything he's involved in, and that is Rob Winkle. Rob Winkle is the president of the Western States Roofing Contractors Association, and I just am so excited to have you here, Rob. Thank you.

Rob Winkle:
Well, thank you for having me.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's good. So, Rob, tell everybody just a little bit about yourself and your business.

Rob Winkle:
Well, I am partners with my twin brother. The name of our company is Roof Asset Management. We're in Thousand Palms, California. We've been down here for 40-plus years. We don't have any other skills so that's-

Heidi Ellsworth:
And you and I knew each other first, and then I met your twin brother and was I like wait, I just talked to Rob. Are you identical twins or, just look like that?

Rob Winkle:
No, we are identical. We get mistaken quite a bit, especially being partners in the same business with the same industry, it gets a little confusing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You have never played any tricks that way have you?

Rob Winkle:
Oh, we've played a few.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think I was one of them at one time, I'm not sure. Well, we're here today to talk about Western States because I've been on the advisory board for Western States on and off for probably 25 years. I love this association, they just do such great things. I would love for you to share a little bit about the history of Western States, how it came to be? We have all these great associations out there, but I don't know if people really realize how much work it took to just get them started.

Rob Winkle:
Well, first of all, I'd like to thank you for all your service on the advisory.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's fun.

Rob Winkle:
It wouldn't be where it is without people like you. You bring such energy and knowledge, and it really helps advance those of us that are on the roofing side, but you bring so much more to the industry that's very helpful to all of us so thank you for that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Oh, thank you.

Rob Winkle:
History. Western States was started back in 1974 so about 48 years ago, we're almost to our 50-year anniversary.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Rob Winkle:
Started by a small group of roofing contractors that found a need ... Saw that there was a need for an association to help advance our industry. I can't remember if it was six or seven gentlemen, they got together, they funded the organization themselves. And Johnny Zamrzla was the second president, Wayne Mullis was the first.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow, okay.

Rob Winkle:
That was decided on a coin toss. But then the industry has just grown from there, but they had the foresight back in 1974 to start the Western States Roofing Contractors Association.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I hear this all the time from different contractors who say, "Well, why do we need a local, a state, a regional, and a national? Why do we need all these different associations? But really Western States is just so well known for its technical, and for really talking about what's happening in the western states. Was that part of that history for them getting together?

Rob Winkle:
It was. It started out with technical information and installation best practices. It really just set the bar for the industry, for contractors to grow their business. When you start as a small contractor, you don't know all of these things, and when you're a big contractor there's lot of things you forget. Not only do they supply information regarding all of this installation and technical advice, also material, and like I said best practices. Through our industry, there's been hiccups through the years of whether it be material or installation practices that may have worked in one region and didn't work in another region. Keeping everybody informed on those changes has made a big difference in the industry.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And we're going to talk more about that membership and being involved with that. But I do have to say, when you talk about the western states, you're going from the rainy Pacific Northwest all the way down to the heat-soaked desert. You really have to look at all conditions for these products and installations and how different it is between California to Idaho, Oregon, to Arizona, or even Texas.

Rob Winkle:
And Hawaii.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And Hawaii and Alaska.

Rob Winkle:
And so that's it. We produce information that is relevant to each of these regions. I don't know what snow or hail looks like. Every once in a while we see rain. When we talk to our contractors up north, they don't see the sun very much. And we have a board of directors that is made up from contractors from across all of the regions that bring their expertise and experience that maybe I wouldn't have in certain conditions. Pretty well rounded in the western states for all those different climate conditions.

Heidi Ellsworth:
When you think Colorado and hail. I mean, you're right, there's just all the different environments and weather conditions. It's crazy. And we're going to get back to that a little bit more as we talk about membership. I wanted to also talk just about your term as president and being on the executive committee these last couple years because we've gone through a lot with COVID, and with material shortages, and oh my gosh, we can just keep going on and on. But tell us a little bit about Western States, your term, what you've been focused on. And what's happened in the last couple years?

Rob Winkle:
Well, boy, it's a long list. There's been a lot of changes over the past few years. A lot of them really happened with the two years prior to me becoming the president, which was with Leo Ibarra, we had a change of our executive director, Joel Viera, who's just done an amazing job. And he was with Western States for 20-plus years prior to that. It was such a smooth transition but like I said, these things happened with Leo. We got a new technical advisor, Kenneth Klein from ... And he brings such a wealth of information. His resources that are available across the country, including his access to their laboratories, is invaluable.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Rob Winkle:
Trent Cotney, we have a ... And I think most people probably know Trent, he's with Adams and Reese, one of the largest construction law firms in the country. Trent is everywhere. There's something to do with roofing, Trent's there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know.

Rob Winkle:
And he's not only an attorney, he has a construction background, roofing, and he has a passion for what we do. And all of these individuals are available for the membership to make a call and talk with. Those three changes were very significant. I was fortunate, by the time it was my term, that they were in place. And like I said, that came under the leadership of Leo. Once I took over, we did get a new safety advisor, Steven Zasadil. We have Toolbox Talks that are sent out every Thursday morning. We've got nothing but positive feedback about those, something to help keep our membership safe. And again, he's available for members to call and get any information or advice from him as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And during your time, during this year, the other thing that's happened is the convention, the expo has actually moved from June to September. We're thinking permanently. I know last year it was in September and then it was decided, let's go September again this year. For everybody, you probably know, I sit on the Associate Advisory. Oh, yeah, we were just talking about that. And I sit on that, and we talk about those things. We talk about when's the best time to have a show, when to put all this together. And I just think this September timeframe is going to be great. It's a big change for everybody.

Rob Winkle:
It is a big change and we were nervous, of course. It's been talked about for years and years trying to find out what was best for the membership, what was best for our associates, manufacturers, and our suppliers. The change actually happened through COVID. It happened because of the lack of access to having a venue. Through that, we were able to take what was a thought and implement it into moving it to September. Now back at the Paris, and we will there for the next several years, and the intention is to stay in that September timeframe. Again, nothing but positive feedback. It's a good time for a lot of contractors. And again, contractors across different reasons have different periods of time that is their busy season. It's worked out well for the contractors as well as I think for the associates, that everybody has that period available to them.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Definitely. I think it's definitely good. I mean, we just talked about all this stuff. Trent Cotney was legal. And safety and technical, Joel, I've worked with him for years. And there's just so many reasons to be a member of Western States, but I would love, Rob, from your history and from your company, first, why did you become a member of Western States? And why did you get involved on the board?

Rob Winkle:
That's a great question. When I first got involved, it was to get information. That's how I found out about the association, to begin with, and this was an awful long time ago. When I got on the board, I thought I was ... It was time for me to give something back to the industry, and it turns out it was completely opposite. I've gained more from being on the board than I ever could give as a roofing contractor trying to make your way through all of this changes in material, changes in rules, regulations. The things that happen from state to state, that usually starts in one state, California, but eventually, it gets its way through the rest of the states. We've been able to stay ahead of the curve, keep our members out of harm's way. For me personally, it's been a really a personal growth being involved with the association. And like I said, the people that are part of the association, people like yourself, have done so much for us.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I watch the volunteers, the contractor volunteers, who work through the ... Being on committees, then getting on the executive team, and then becoming president, and I've been friends with many. Bill Bailey, Christian Madson, all the way back. Charlie Frost. And it's the same emotion that you're feeling now as that president because you just ... The people are so great. The people are so great. And what it does for the industry is so important. Every time I'm talking to contractors, I'm always saying, "Are you involved with your association? Are you a member? Are you doing things?" You're right, it's 100%. You give your time, but really it's everything that comes back to your business and you personally as just professional and personal growth. It's an amazing thing to be involved in. I sometimes feel guilty because I don't do nearly as much in my local community as I do in the roofing community because that's my family.

Rob Winkle:
And we love you for it. Like you said, it's one of those things that you become a part of. It's far more than we could ever explain, ever express to somebody what the benefits are like you said, both personal and professional. From a contractor standpoint, it's without question one of the most important decisions you could make would be being part of this association.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I always have this picture in my head of this video that Bill Bailey did a number of years ago. And he talked about that he had, through one phone call to the Western States General Counsel, legal ... It wasn't Trend at that time, there was another ... I can't remember who it was. That he saved thousands, thousands of dollars in legal fees, and in risk, and in everything else. And he just tells it so eloquently about really that one benefit, which is just one of so many, was ... Paid for his membership for year after year after year just from that one thing. And I hear the same thing on technical with the ... All the work the technical committee has done on underlayments, and TPO, and all those things that are saving contractors. What do you hear on those things from members and how the ROI is so strong for your membership dues?

Rob Winkle:
That's a really great point. Bill's a special guy, he is very eloquent with telling his experience. Chuck Chapman. Pete Schmautz. They can tell you stories through the years of both legal, technical, how it has affected their business, how it is has helped our industry. I hear it every time we get together. We have contractors that tell us that Trent has ... 15 minutes on the phone with him gave him direction, and how it saved them so much money, and put them out of harm's way. Same thing with the technical things. We have people that have told us that we've always done this, and then they got these technical bulletins and whatnot, and how it really affected them. They're ones where they've been involved in large construction projects where details were not what they were supposed to be, and they would take our details and use them to protect themselves as far as installation practices. We hear a lot of stories about the technical and legal side, how it has really helped contractors through the years.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I hear it all the time. Anybody who's listening to this, whether you're in the western states, you need to be a Western States member. Or, if you are anywhere in the country, whatever your local and regionals, especially the regionals ... The regionals really focus on that technical, legal, just bringing things for the region that you need is so important. And we'll bring it back full circle from the beginning, it leads right back to Western Roofing Expo in September. And talk about a great place to get all this information in one place and that's Vegas.

Rob Winkle:
That sums it up. I mean, you're a perfect example. Here you are putting out information to the roofing industry, RoofersCoffeeShop. Where else can you get all these people together? Like I said, our manufacturers, our suppliers. If anybody's ever been to the expo, it's one of the largest ones in the country. The latest material, the latest tools, and not just for installation. Estimating, insurance, the legal side, safety side, the advances in equipment for safety practices, for keeping track, logging. The things that are really, really important that you don't think about until you have a problem, all of that stuff is available at the expo. And when you start walking through, there's so much stuff it takes two days. You really can't see everybody in a one-day period. So thankfully we have it open for a few days, and it really does take that much time because there's so much going on and so many people that bring so much to the industry that you just can't do yourself or your company justice. If you think you can get it in one day, it just isn't going to happen.

Heidi Ellsworth:
No. I mean, the first hour you spend just saying hi to everybody because everybody knows everyone. And if you don't know anyone, that's how you're going to network and get to know people because it's a very welcoming open group. So let's walk through that, Rob. So the first thing. So as everybody's making their plans because right now it's on June, July so you should be already thinking about getting registered for Western States, getting your hotels, we've already got ours. I think we're staying either at Bally's or the Paris, I'm not sure which, but one of them. You want to come in early for the Davis Foundation events. So if you golf, there's a golf tournament. If you do the clays, you can shoot clays. And then there's just this awesome welcoming auction reception event that first night, which is Sunday the 20th I do believe. We will confirm that as we're talking. Then everybody goes into all the classes. You guys get so many submittals and so much good stuff that comes from that. What classes are you looking at this year?

Rob Winkle:
I wish I had the list in front of me. We do, we get submittals from all across the board in the industry, whether it be safety, technical, suppliers that bring ... Send in applications to do seminars. I think this year we had over 70 or 80 applications, and it's a difficult thing to pair down to the ones that we actually have because all of them are so good. So it goes through a process of voting through the board independently looking at each of the seminars, and whichever ones have the most interest are the ones that are put up. And we have seminars from Trent Cotney's history of roofing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Rob Winkle:
I would recommend that to anybody in the industry if you want to find out where we started and where we came from. It's pretty amazing. We have people coming in and doing safety seminars. We have a lot of seminars on installation practices and things of that nature. We also have business practices, which is really helpful. It gets overlooked sometimes that we don't just install roofs, we have to figure out how to navigate through all the changes in legislation, we have to take and navigate through all of the ... It's different in regions. We try to cover what is probably the most current things, but we have seminars on how to set up maintenance programs, how to ... We have succession programs on some of us that are getting older. What's going to happen in the future with our companies, and the employees, and how you make a graceful exit at some point in time? There's something for everybody. And I said they start on I believe it's Monday and Tuesday.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And actually, I just looked. It is. The 24th is when it starts for the auction. It is on the 24th of September so plan on being there that weekend. And then the next day on Sunday is when everything starts with the classes.

Rob Winkle:
And thank you for that. As you said, you don't want to miss the Davis events, whether it's the sporting clays, or the golf tournament, or the auction and reception. The Davis Foundation has given out so many scholarships to deserving people that come from this industry. Some of the recipients have come back and told us their stories of where they've ... What they've gone on to do and how helpful it was. It's an amazing thing that they raise so much money. This year, I think they're giving out another 10 scholarships.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We are because I'm on that trustee's board. Or, I'm a trustee I should say how you say that. And 10 more this year. So many of the young people have actually come back into the roofing industry too so it's pretty exciting.

Rob Winkle:
So let me become the interviewer for a moment. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the Davis and what ... How they've been able to help the industry?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Rob. We just had a podcast with Chuck Chapman too, to talk about that. As you're listening to this, you also need to look for that other episode of Roofing Road Trips on the Davis Foundation with Chuck Chapman. I think it's over 200 or close to 200 scholarships out over the years. The 20th year we did 20 scholarships that year. But it goes to young people who ... And not even young, it can be anybody in their career who's going back to school who are associated to the roofing industry. So they have to be associated to the roofing industry in the western states. So I can say Rob, that Megan Ellsworth, our daughter, the podcast producer, was also a recipient of a Davis Foundation scholarship and is now working back in the industry. Stan Robinson's son was a recipient and now he's working back in the business. And not everyone does. A lot of the scholarships go to become doctors and nurses so it's across the board, but you have to be related to the industry somehow and live in the western states. It makes it special for the kids in the industry.

Rob Winkle:
And then I can't thank you enough. And again, that opening, those events, fund all of those scholarships.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Exactly.

Rob Winkle:
So we get to go out and play and have a good time, but it's really the art of what ... Where the funds come from to be able to do that good work.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And we do that every year and it is so much fun but it raises so much money. And people can also just purchase a full scholarship. So for $5,000, if they want to name their own scholarship they can do that too. And so we're getting a lot of roofing companies out there who are saying, "We just want to name a scholarship after our company and have that go out." And so our goal is the more ... We feel like there are so many people who need support with schools and education, and that's not just colleges it's also vocational schools. We had this awesome young lady a couple years ago who went into welding, and has just had a great career and she was able to get a scholarship to be a welder. It's important.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And then I think that really leads us to that next day. And that's why it's always so fun because we're all together, but then that next day, all the classes you've already talked about. And then, of course, the trade show, which has so much. But there's also the legislative luncheon, there's ... I mean, there's just so many things that happen at Western States that really can help grow your business. I always come away with notes. I'm always taking notes about how I can grow RoofersCoffeeShop just from the classes and the different events that I attend at Western States.

Rob Winkle:
You brought up the legislative luncheon, Craig Brightup, he's been doing this for as many years as I can remember. And he has his pulse on Washington. Sometimes it's things we don't want to hear, but he lets us know what's going on, what's moving and shaking, and it really helps us prepare for the following year what we can expect, no surprises. The information he brings, that event is well attended-

Heidi Ellsworth:
It is. I love it.

Rob Winkle:
Usually full. And like I said, sometimes we walk away feeling pretty good, sometimes it's a little knot your stomach but you know what's going on. Anybody that has ever been there I think would recommend that you go to the legislative luncheon.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Really good, really good. I love it. I go every year. I think it's great. Well, we are coming to the end of this road trip, but I did want to say, Rob, that we are going to, at the Western States, on the trade show floor, RoofersCoffeeShop is having a live sound stage. I want to interview you again in person on the show floor. We have a nice big booth and it's going to have the live sound stage so we'll have our sound crew there, Megan and Colin. Karen Edwards and I will be there interviewing people. It's going to be the first time that we've brought live Coffee Conversations to Western States. And Joel has just been awesome and Alec, putting all this together. We're going to be able to bring that show. For people who maybe can't attend, although everybody should, but if you can't attend we'll be bringing it to you live on YouTube also so I'm excited about that.

Rob Winkle:
You never thought that would happen in 1974.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. That's right. Who knows what we'll be doing 10 years from now?

Rob Winkle:
Oh my gosh. Before we go, something we didn't talk about is the staff of Western States.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes. Oh, Rob, I love that. Yes, let's talk about them.

Rob Winkle:
Joel has done an amazing job. Anybody that knows him, he's all in, his heart is there. He brings a ton of information with him as the executive director. Sophia, she's a tough cookie. She runs the numbers and she keeps all of us in line but with the budget and all the things that she handles. Couldn't do it without her. Alec, with membership, he continues to grow it. Anybody that has ever met him or talked to him, it's hard to walk away without knowing that you should be a member of this association.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's right.

Rob Winkle:
Chris. Everything that ever gets produced, the flyers, all of the print stuff that comes out, even Toolbox Talks, he works and puts out. It's such a talented staff.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It really is. And Samantha. Don't forget Samantha helping with all of the Davis.

Rob Winkle:
Samantha is always smiling. She's all over the place.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know.

Rob Winkle:
If you go up to the expo, you'll just see them running like crazy. It's probably got to be the toughest week I can imagine. What they do to prepare for the expo and then making it all happen while we're there. They make our job easy. Pretty incredible people. And it's what makes Western States so special, right.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Exactly, exactly. And all part of the roofing industry, part of this community that we have, that is just so special. Well, Rob, I want to say thank you for all you do, for your great leadership of Western States. All the work you did on the executive committee, even before you became president. I know how much it takes and we appreciate you so much. So thank you for, first of all, being on this podcast, being on this roofing road trip with me, and thank you for all you do for Western States and the industry overall.

Rob Winkle:
Thank you, Heidi, I appreciate it very, very much.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you. And I want to thank all of you. I hope all of you out there are feeling this heartwarming episode. Thank you for listening today. Please check out all of our podcasts, including that Davis Foundation podcast on RoofersCoffeeShop.com under the read, listen, watch podcast section or, on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and get notifications because you don't want to miss a single road trip. My name is Heidi, and we'll see you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the RoofersCoffeeShop.com.

WSRCA Members receive a free 15-minute consultation. 

As a leader in the roofing industry, Western States Roofing Contractors Association is constantly striving to provide its members with technical information regarding the proper design and installation of roof assemblies, applicable to the geographic region served by the Association. WSRCA also focuses on informing members of critical industry issues affecting all aspects of roofing and waterproofing — including in-field product performance, code updates, and manufacturing standards. 

In efforts to maintain the highest levels of technical information and assistance for its members, WSRCA is proud to announce a partnership with new Technical Advisor, Kenneth Klein of Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Inc. (SGH®)
 
SGH® is a national engineering firm that designs, investigates, and rehabilitates structures, building enclosures, and materials.  Their award-winning work encompasses building, energy, civil/infrastructure, and science/defense projects in the United States, Canada, and more than thirty additional countries.  
 
Kenneth Klein leads the West Coast Building Technology division of SGH Inc, and is experienced in the design and investigation of waterproofing of commercial, institutional, and residential buildings. His work addresses issues related to the integrity of curtain walls, roofs, plaza deck, and below-grade waterproofing systems on a wide-range of structures from residential and high-rise building to buildings of historic significance. Ken has consulted with architects, contractors, and building owners to analyze and repair water intrusion problems and construction defects. Well known in the industry, he has frequently presented to groups regarding building-envelope design and remediation.
 
Ken and his SGH team will provide timely and critical technical bulletins to our member community as a benefit. Attendees at the Western Roofing Expo will see Ken each year as he will present a technical seminar that promises to be informational and enlightening to the roofing industry.
 
WSRCA members have special access to these sources of technical information — which can be used by contractors, engineers, consultants throughout the roofing industry as a valuable feature of membership.
 
Contact your new Technical Advisor and take advantage of your FREE 15-minute consultation!

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