Vickie's RCS Soapbox

We found these antique photos offering very rare roof details.
Take a look at the double bottom edge and the shingle-weaving, Wow!

I found this story and photo from 1967.

Sister Winifred, August 19, 1967

“Nun In Hard Hat And Habit Takes On-Job Training, August 20, 1967
Sister Winifred McCarthy of the Sisters of Charity of the Immaculate Conception of St. John, N.B. helps shingle a roof in Vancouver, BC, as part of her University of British Columbia Course in industrial education.  She plans to go to Peru to teach. Sister Winifred has learned construction, cabinet making, welding and other skills.  Besides wearing a hard hat she had to modify her habit so it wouldn’t get caught in machinery.”

Interstate Roofing in Colorado Shows Their True Colors

Creating a Masterpiece

This roof was a dream of Roland Gonzales, which was embraced by his colleagues at Interstate Roofing.
“We have all wanted to do this for a while but as you know most flat roofs have so much mechanical up top that
it won’t work” said Dustin Divitto, Regional Manager. “Then we needed to sell this project to the right customer
who had a roof that could make the project look nice. This building is an old dental school that it has been recently bought by a man named Earnest Dill who owns satellite colleges in several places in the nation.
This project just worked out perfect.  It was fun seeing all the people involved making this project come
out so flawless. Our customer is proud”.

Hard to believe it’s a roof

This is a GAF TPO materials roof.  Each star was hand cut and welded to the blue background.
Congratulations on making a dream come true and making us proud to be American and Roofers.

View from above

Patriotism and A Quality Installation!

Shown in photo are the 3 project managers: Robert Cupp, Roland Gonzales and Jake Reid

This editorial was written by our dear friend a number of years ago. It was one of my favorite things written on the RCS Forum and I saved it all these years. It only got better with time….

ARE WE PRACTICING ROOFING?

In Ireland and Great Britain there are many professions like Lawyers and Doctors who never claim to be ‘Experts’. Specialists, yes – Know-it-alls, no. They are practicing. I assume it is the same in the USA where you have Medical Practitioners or Lawyers ‘Practicing Law’. Professors in colleges who practice their chosen specialist field be it in music, medicine, law, or economics.

They never claim to ‘know-it-all’. I believe this is to allow them scope to improve their knowledge of the subject they have devoted their lives to and the changes that come about through new inventions and technology or changes in the laws be they may made by man or by a higher power.

I believe one of the many problems with roofing and roofers is we do not push ourselves forward as a ‘Profession’ or ‘Practice’ in a similar way that other construction professionals do, for example mechanical and electrical services (Ireland anyway).

In failing to truly value our knowledge and expertise within the roofing industry we send out a negative view of ourselves and the importance of the services we provide to our clients for the properties they trust us with.

When clients want our opinion or services they pick up the yellow pages, make a few calls and these guys will come running trying to beat each other’s prices, or worse. A practice I hate when I see it and will not get involved in, is bad mouthing the competition instead of selling their own professional service.

While we will entrust our lives to a ‘Practicing’ brain or heart surgeon why should our customers expect the price wars and back stabbing among the professional roofers worldwide? They expect it because we allow it to happen, some of us actually take part in the very behavior that belittles us all and puts our skills and knowledge out to the public free of charge.

Not only our own knowledge, but some of us are giving away free of charge, the use of very expensive transport, equipment, and time in the hope of making a living. We take on the responsibility for crazy insurance premiums, without any real recognition for the services we provide by the very people who often save money by our services. Maybe it is time to start demanding incentives to train apprentices with the help of roofing colleges and courses to teach the young men and women what we know and are still learning.

Until pride in the work carried out is introduced we will get nowhere, it is just as important for the three tab shingles to look and perform as well as the traditional slate or the copper roofs, of course the client will only get the life expectancy in a roof that suits their pocket, but does that mean because all homes are not covered with roofing products that have 50 year minimum life expectancy they should not get a professional installation?

As to the choice of roofers available to the public, yes they have jacklegs, cowboys whatever the local name for scum whose only true ability is to rip off elderly or those who know it all and think they are saving money using only operators. That does not include all roofers who take chance operating without insurance licenses where they apply.

One of the best roofers I had the privilege to employ owned his own small kettle for built up felt roofing (no mops, only pour and toll). He was as entitled to make a living just as I was, in fact he knew more about different felts than I did and was only too happy to pass on his knowledge and the customers who wanted large jobs done that he couldn’t manage.

That man was a skilled roofer, a pleasure to watch and work with, not a contracts manager or entrepreneur, he just wanted to make enough money to live a comfortable life.

To the self-employed and company directors in the roofing business, perhaps there is someone out there who can guide us to achieving the respect and professional status the true Roofing Practitioner deserves.

I don’t know the answer but for as long as I am in this business I am willing to listen and learn from the every source I can, I do know that at this time we are not going to be appreciated for our knowledge if we don’t start to appreciate ourselves.

Here endeth the sermon for today, anyone got any suggestions?

Kind Regards, Peter Crawley.

Thank you for reading this blog post.  We would like to thank our contributors and all the loyal supporters to the RoofersCoffeeShop.com.  Without them we couldn’t have made this blog and website possible!  We invite you to visit our website and see all the products and services we have to offer there.

Here’s something I thought about today.  Do you roofers or your crews ever get offered tips?   I know you bid a job and that is what you expect to be paid.  Tips aren’t part of our roofing business (are they?).   I wouldn’t imagine any tips are offered on commercial projects because you may be working with a general contractor or management company.  Your tip is getting hired for the next job, but with a residential project do homeowners reward you with a little extra?

I personally have a tendency to tip or add a little extra to my bills.  That doesn’t mean it should be done.  I’m not bragging, it’s more of a flaw than an attribute with me.  But I will always have cold drinks and some cash for a crew member that goes out of his way.  Sometimes lunch.   I am grateful getting the project done and mentally think they are doing me a favor instead of doing what they are paid for.  Do you have other customers that feel this way too?  If someone offers do you take the tip?

How about you.  Do you ever tip the yard guys in the material yard or the guys deliver your materials?    Let’s take it a step further, do you tip the girl at the counter when you pick up your Pizza!?!

Another thoughtful interview with a seasoned Veteran.  We contacted Mike to see if this still rang though for him and he didn’t want to change a thing.   So from September 2007, our RCS’er of the Month – Mr. Michael Hicks

We would like to introduce you to Mr. Michael Hicks. Mike is a frequent contributor to the Roofers Coffee Shop Forum. His wise advice, his encouragement and his ethics warrant us to recognize him as this months ROOFERSCOFFEESHOP patron of the month. We are proud to introduce him to you all.

Mike has been roofing since 1982, at the age of 16 and currently owns Hicks Industrial Roofing, Inc. in New Philadelphia, Ohio. He specializes in low slope industrial/commercial/institutional roofing primarily installing thermoplastic and modified bitumen membrane systems.  Hicks Roofing maintains a very steady workforce of about 30 technicians and 6 management personnel.

RCS- The gang on the CoffeeShop really appreciates your insight in to Life, Business and Roofing. How long have you been contributing?

Mike- Goodness, I’m too old for that kind of questions. Since the early days. Back when a dozen or so posts was a busy day.

RCS- So, How’s business?

Mike- This has been a challenging year. We have been steady, but while volume is down a good bit, our guys have been doing great work and our margins are actually up quite a bit. So as long as I have enough work to keep our great group of people busy, I won’t complain. I am a man of faith, and God has never let me down. Sometimes He just reminds me who’s really in charge.

RCS- When you were 10 years old what do you think you would be doing?

Mike- An animal behaviorist. By the end of the 3^rd grade I had read 3 complete animal encyclopedia volumes. I love the outdoors, nature and wildlife.

RCS- Who taught you to roof?

Mike- My dad. Both in early application, and by learning a lot from seeing what he did that didn’t work. I’ve had some good associations with great people, all of whom I’ve tried to learn from.

RCS- What was the most valuable lessons you learned about roofing?

Mike- This is two part answer, because 1 led to the other: 1) That saving money for a rainy day will allow you to survive, where others die. I died in my first attempt at running a roofing company and was blessed to get a second chance. 2) That from the neck down a person is only worth so much. From the neck up, there is no limit.

RCS- What were the most valuable lesson you learned from being in the business?

Mike- That business requires people of many talents and that being all things to all people is a physical impossibility. Hiring people with the traits you lack, the values you cherish, and giving them the freedom to perform is the only way to keep good people.

RCS- What is the best thing you ever did for your business?

Mike- I don’t know if I can nail that one down. Going “Drug-Free” was a big one in measurable results, but treating people like I would want to be treated, recognizing that we all have our problems and being flexible with individual needs have probably contributed more to the success of this company that anything else. Hiring the right people for the right jobs.

RCS- What are your biggest concerns being in business in 2007?

Mike- Consolidation of the industry. The growing force of what I’ll call “nationwide” contractors is changing the face of the industrial side of the business.  The importance of relationships on a local level are being stripped away as decisions are being made based on dollars by people with no practical roofing experience that will not have to live with the results of their purchasing decisions. The end product being produced by some of these companies that I have been privileged to observe are lacking in quality, and that makes it difficult for a company like ours that was built on quality service and end products. Slick salesmen are no substitute for a good roof.

RCS- Do you belong to any associations related to your business?

Mike- We are members of the NRCA, MRCA, OhioRCA, Tuscarawas County Chamber of Commerce, National Federation of Independent Business and some local trade/business organizations.

RCS- In one word, describe the perfect employee.

Mike- I don’t think I can. Honest is the word that comes to mind for all that the word can encompass, but how can one word describe perfection?

RCS- The best boss you ever had taught you what?

Mike- You reap what you sow.

RCS- Do you have any health concerns due to roofing?

Mike- High blood pressure, a thick middle, stress out the wazzoo, and broken L-5 from trying to be the “He-Man” in my youth.

RCS- Any other hobbies other then roofing?

Mike-Absolutely. The reason I roof is because no one pays me for my hobbies. I enjoy hunting, fishing, cooking, anything that involved speed, and just doing things with my family.

RCS- What makes you smile when you think about your job?

Mike- Solving a difficult problem. Getting a letter of thanks from a customer. Some of the crazy reasons employees give me for needing a loan.

RCS- What are your goals for the future?

Mike- To have people talk to my children about their dad, the same way people talk to me about my dad. If that happens, I will have been a success.

RCS- Any tips for the new guy starting out?

Mike- Marry someone that loves you, more than they love themselves, and love them the same way. Don’t spend it all in one place. So many guys get that big check and go blow it. Buy what you can afford, not what you want. Save, save, save. Always do good work, don’t cut corners, even when you made a mistake and it’s going to cost you out of pocket. A reputation is not built over night. Be the kind of man you would want your daughter to marry. You can search for wisdom and good fortune in the world, but the only place I’ve ever found it was on my knees. Don’t work for a wage. If that’s all you’re working for, you don’t need the hassles of business ownership. When you finally “get there”, don’t forget from where you came and be willing to share you knowledge with someone else. Don’t be jealous of others, but find satisfaction in where you are. Cherish the hard times, because they make the good times all the sweeter.

Thank you for reading this blog post.  We would like to thank our contributors and all the loyal supporters to the RoofersCoffeeShop.com.  Without them we couldn’t have made this blog and website possible!  We invite you to visit our website and see all the products and services we have to offer there.

Great Advice taken from our RoofersCoffeeShop.com Forum:

TOPIC – EMPLOYEE SIDE WORK by CHIPPER
I remember seeing it discussed before, but how do most owners/managers handle employees finding side work? I don’t mind if my guys find some side shingle jobs since we don’t mess with that too much but I don’t want it interfering with our primary work. I also don’t want them talking to my customers about doing side work (paint, power wash, window cleaning, blacktop re-coats, etc) while they are at work. How do most of you all handle this issue?

REPLIES:

TINNER - Wayyyy back whennnn. My Boss would lend me his truck and tools to do side work. TABOO was EVER doing anything with HIS customers. I did work for friends and relatives. (I’m still doing friends and relatives, and their relatives! It’s my referral base going back 30+years) I carried on the tradition when I had crews, but didn’t lend my trucks.

CHIPPER – I agree. I want my guys to have opportunities but I don’t want them creating them while on the clock. I send them on side work all of the time and often loan tools. Never a truck or a ladder for liability reasons. What ticks me off is when a guy doesn’t want to come to work for a week because he’s locked up a cake job and wants to do it during normal work hours putting us, his full time employer, in a bind.

 MIKE H – Under 10 squares, buy material from me, do it when you’re not needed here, no problem. Work for a competitor, get flat work and buy materials elsewhere, we have a problem.

 HOUSE OF PAIN – My guys can do all the side work they want, just as long as it’s not roofing. If they do any roofing, they are fired. No exceptions.

ACE ECO – Side work? If you use the company name/paperwork then you should make something being it’s your company. But not using company name/paperwork then  why not do all the side jobs in the world?

THE FETTY – I bid a job then got low-bailed by another guy from our shop. Then he asked if I would help! WTF

RIVER RAT DAD - Back when I was an employee the company I worked for didn’t have a written policy per say. Personally never did side work, except on rare occasion for a friend, for free. Other guys did though. Some thoughts: Certainly stealing work from the company was unacceptable. Using company equipment was unacceptable. Missing work to do a side job was unacceptable. Other thoughts at large to me are: In general, in America, most people take the stand that “What I do on my own time is my business”. Obviously if one is committing crimes against humanity on your own time, it is the business of the employer. My feeling as an employee was that roofing was a very demanding job physically and if I was to give my employer a fair days/weeks effort, I needed to rest my body on the weekends.

ALBA – I don’t see anything wrong with the employees doing side work on their own time as long as they don’t use their company’s tools, trucks and don’t compete with the company for the same job. Personally I feel too tired on weekends to do side jobs.

JSC – I’ve lost untold amounts of materials to side jobs. At the very least, a little mastic, nails, metals, staples on one. At the most, everything but some shingles. I don’t know how you really stop it unless you have a zero side job policy. And you’d better have their replacements handy when you have to fire them. There’s a fortune to be made in the roofing business if the materials are free and you do the labor yourself.

SCOTT – That is a bad mix. Tell em if they want extra work you can give it to em! I would never let them do it! They either work for me or against me! Too many good reasons as to why, some are stated above.

JET – I’m with HOP, No roofing on the side, PERIOD.

BOBBY – I agree with RRD on this. When I worked for someone and the neighbors came over I figured this was his referral he earned it by being there. A few times I was livid then I had a crew and they gave their names when someone came on my job asking. That’s stealing. I did let some guys do side work if I knew it was their relatives but something was always stolen from me.

JSC – I once loaned my crew to my Moose Lodge, who badly needed a roof and had limited funds. Every SOB in there got my men’s names and phone numbers, and bypassed me for their personal roofs.

TARFACE – Lose your ticket for scabbing around here.

ANITA – Not allowed. The reason behind that is many, but the big one is, where did the lead come from? Were they on one of our job, had a neighbor come up due to our work, our advertising, our company name, and ask them to come look at his roof? In my opinion, that is employee theft. Use our equipment? The last one that did that (eight years ago_ was terminated. We found out from the customer. (when he called due to a leak six months later) that he understood the employee to be representing our company. Now, if one of our guys is roofing his mothers house, needs to use a ladder, we are informed of the address etc., that is a different story, we might just go help out. Other than that, no side jobs allowed or they can work for someone else.

WILLIE – We use subs so we don’t care but if they are gonna do it then they are gonna do it either with or without your help. Probably better to help em out. Maybe they will appreciate it and let it show on your jobs.

BOSS – My guys can do a side job IF…We don’t do that kind of work, it is for a family member or it is for charity. That is it. I got us out of a whole lot of trouble because one of my guys did a side job and did a horrible job of it. His customer called me and started to chew me a new one. That was when I said no more!

SYD – Its tough not to permit your employees from Moonlighting- cause when work is slow, how can you morally prevent it. However, your good intentions can turn into a quagmire if problems arise- for some smart azz lawyer could sue you on basis that these employees are you agents. This is fact, not fiction- and they always go for the people covered w/insurance.

HOTAIR – I agree with Mike as long as it doesn’t interfere with their regular job. Our company also throws its better employees a bone or two. We also have several contractors that got their start working for us and are now valued material customers. We refer a lot of the smaller jobs to them when we are really busy as long as they purchase the material from us. We get a share of the pie that we would have otherwise had to turn down because of being too busy.

DARRYL – Your not really supposed to do side jobs this way unless you have a license and pull a permit. If you get caught there are penalties to pay. If we pull a permit for them then we are guilty of aiding and abetting an unlicensed contractor and our licenses can be revoked. So most of the side jobs are done on Sat or Sunday when the license inspectors have a day off. In theory we are supposed to report the workers and the homeowner if we know about the deal. Just like Sergeant Schultz “I see and hear nothing”

EXPERIENCED – I wouldn’t advise lending equipment to employees or condoning side jobs. Unless like Boss said it’s for family members etc. What happens when you need that power ladder or compressor Monday morning and it needs repair or that guy who borrowed it is sick? Many times the guy doing the side jobs in your area can wind up becoming your competition. Working for my father’s company for many years and eventually starting my own company, I always had enough respect for him and pride in myself to use my own equipment and do work in a location that he would not travel to.

ED – Many moons ago when I was working in Ft. Worth our boss not only allowed side jobs he would sell em for us! He would tell the customer up from that some of his guys would be doing the work on the side and to pay us directly. We would get the materials from him at just over cost. Everybody was happy.

SHELTER – The thing with side jobs is that the guys never seem to make as much money as they thought they would. They tend to bid on a decent day’s wage, but also never allow for anything more. Also, from my experience, they never seem to have everything they need and the job takes longer than expected. All of this is good experience. And maybe they won’t take the role of owner/salesman/contractor for granted next time. Just one way to look at it.

Lots of good conversation happens online at RoofersCoffeeShop. Roofers around the country (and the world) feel free to talk business with each other. You can read and join in this and hundreds of other topics online. Look for the FORUM at out site www.rooferscoffeeshop.com. The RCS Forum- “The place roofers meet for coffee”.