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Old School: [ How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 9:24 PM

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I am a : Roofer

Vickie has talked on her blog about where we will get the new workers. Tom has asked why the difference in wages on Davis bacon jobs and 'regular" work.

At least in the skilled trades, if we had union workers a lot of these questions would be moot. We spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS every year training the next generation of workers, all races and both genders! Safety is a large part of our training, as is quality. I know that there are a lot of scumbags out there in all the trades, but in the union, the best get hired first and if you are a scumbag so to speak, you sit.

Is the union the answer? I don't know for everyone else, but it sure works for us. I WANT everyone that is working with me to be trained and motivated and paid the same as I would expect to be paid. JMHO

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twill59: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

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I am a : Roofer

My crew was approached on the job once. They were not interested. I was the only one interested.

I was later given their recruiting handout by one of my guys. After reading about what a scumball piece of shit I am, ( as an owner) I decided that I'd not be interested either.

Too bad. If that is the low road they wish to take, Their choice.

wywoody: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 7:21 AM

I am a : roofing survivor

OS, does union safety go beyond OSHA rules? I remember when unions would follow all their silly rules and call it a "worker slowdown". It was a tactic to get back at management short of striking.

I used to be a union company when I was more commercial oriented. I use a couple of union guys if I get overloaded with work. I pay them about the same, but without benefits. The majority of Roofers Union workers up here seem to work sporatically and one of these two guys always seems available when I need someone.

TomB: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 7:30 AM

I am a : Roofer

As an employer, I had approached the local union years ago in this area, in attempts to somehow "fix"/help the labor pool situation.....I had similar beliefs as OS expressed on another thread...

Between the predominent local, illegal workforce & the union's lame existence, nothing ever came of it. I'm sure the general Colorado business environment would virgorously oppose any "union" activity, much as it does state contractor licensing.

I will add, that my experience with union workers has been generally negative, years ago, in Calif. They were "generally", slow, unproductive and self-serving....Unemployment compensation was considered part of their annual compensation. IOW's; A good portion of them worked just enough to collect full UI pymnts...when it ran out, then would work again. (Sorry OS)

Old School: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 11:59 AM

I am a : Roofer

We work for a union leasing company, which is like a private union hall. We can call the hall for workers if we want, but they would all come from the leasing agency anyway; that is who signs the checks. It works well for us. We don't normally try and do too much and stay small. I tried to "save the world" years ago and didn't have much luck with that. I also tried to impress myself and a lot of other people with my abilities and intelligence and didn't have much luck with that either.

I have now gotten to the point where I am not trying to impress anyone and am being wildly successful in that effort. What we do works for us in our own small way and we will try and continue until something better comes along.

Old School: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 12:09 PM

I am a : Roofer

Woody; Safety is more common sense than anything else. I was talking to the OSHA inspector the other day about just that thing. Did you ever stop to wonder where they came up with all of the rules?

Typical group speak. I am sure that after they passed the laws mandating a safe work environment, they had to gather up different representatives of the different groups involved and everyone had their say in what constituted a safe work site and conditions. The unions certainly, the insurance companies, the acadamia crowd and some of the larger construction companies. A lot of give and take and eventually they come up with a set of rules. Kind of like a camel is a horse designed by a committee. OSHA just reads the rules and enforces them. Are they all right or sensible? No, not at all. Is there an answer? Normally, probably somewhere between what we all normally do and what they would like to see. Is there a way to make all jobs 100% safe? No, that is like demanding safe energy or cool fire. How about warm ice?

Where are you from? It is good that you can get a union worker on occasion. I hope it works well for you.

Rockydog: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 11:11 PM

I am a : Roofing and construction

Sorry OS. We have a strong Association down here. There is a union but I've never heard from anyone in 26 years down here. We run across plenty of prevailing wages stuff, but no unions calling on us.

Old School: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 5:11 AM

I am a : Roofer

Hopefully the difference between what you normally pay and prevailing wage is not much. With us it is easy. Our wages match or exceed the prevailing wage rates.

TomB: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 6:11 AM

I am a : Roofer

There's a good point......Why is it, that prevailing wage rates differ so, in particualr regions, as compared to actual cost-of-living &/or "private sector/regular" wage rates?

I remember bidding work in Texas, many years ago; The prev. wage rates were less than what we paid our guys on "regular" work. I think the carpenter wage was $8.03/hr, as compared to the $15/hr we paid on "regular" work.

Here in Colorado, prevailing wages are nothing to write home about...Why is that?

Roofguy: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 7:11 AM

Lets see, hmmm, do I want the government telling me how to run my business and how much I have to pay employees, or do I want a union doing that? I choose neither!

Maybe there is a connection between Texas being a right to work state and having some of the least government intrusion in our lives (no income tax, few unions, no roofing licensure), and it being the strongest economy in the nation.

The day a union has anything to do with my company is the day I find another way to make a living.

www.adamsrooftech.com

Rockydog: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 9:28 AM

I am a : Roofing and construction

I've posted in other posts what I pay my guys. They don't fair to poorly for this area.
We're at or above prevailing and maybe union, IDK.

Old School: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 7:25 PM

I am a : Roofer

Roofguy, I am not arguing with you on that, but with the right union craftsman with the right skills and the right attitude, you would be estatic! I guarantee you that if you hired myself and my crew to do ANY work for you, it would be perfect, the job would be done safely and you would make money. It is the people and not the rules or money that make a difference. There are plenty of scumbags out there and a lot of them are union and a lot more of them are nonunion.

FYI, union rates vary widely all across the country. They are one factor used to determine the prevailing wage.

Old School: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 7:25 PM

I am a : Roofer

GKRFG: [ RE: How many union workers or employers on this forum? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 9:52 PM

I am a : Roofer

I spent time in the union.
I learned a lot but the underlying attitude of the union officials always bugged me.
In their opinion we were working for them, not whatever company we happened to be employed by, and I could never see it that way.

As to wages, it is the employers who are the problem.
This should (and could) be a well payed profession. If we owners would learn to charge enough to be able to afford the costs. But there are too few contractors that want to sell on anything but low price and the only way to do that is cheap labor. It's the easiest way but it sure doesn't help the industry or helpp us in attracting future roofers. Sad.