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| TomB: [ Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 9:23 AM | |  | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Example;
circa 1990 in a particualr region;
Private Davis-Bacon
$15/hr...........$ 20-ish
2012 same region;
Private Davis-Bacon
$15-18/hr........$ 44/hr |
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| Replies: | [ 1 thru 15 of 24 ] |
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| Old School: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 12:24 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Because everyone keeps bashing the unions and they are the ones that have always led the fight for better wages and benefits. Less union membership = lower wages overall. My thoughts anyway.
At least in the building trades! |
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| Old School: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 9:13 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Wow, no "bites" on that one eh? Lets put it this way; We in the carpenters and laborers unions are looking for highly skilled and or trainable workers that are interested in doing quality work in a safe manner with appropriate compensation. This compensation includes medical insurance, retirement benefits, training, and above average wages. (see above) We are also eligible for unemployment benefits when we are off work.
Depending on where you live, the wages may not be that much higher that "normal" $20-25 dollars per hour, but the added benefits make up the rest of the difference.
You don't see many "undocumented" workers trying to get into the union. Chances are if you have union workers on your job, they are not illegals, they are not "subs" they are not 1099'ed, they have been trained to work safely, and they will give you 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. Anything over 8 hours is 1 1/2 time too. We are union and we do EXCELLENT work. |
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| TomB: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 9:56 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Illegals don't care about health insurance, nor any long-term benefits...They're simply here to extract the most $ they can in the shortest time frame, then ultimately return to Mexico.
That's what's stalled wages.
Wasn't the NRCA or possibly a union recently begining to pander to illegals? That's next...Just wait! |
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| twill59: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 10:18 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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OS: I don't know about the Roofers, but the Carpenters union has a different pay scale for their residential division. Don't know 'bout bennies. Same I'd guess
I do know that Roofers have a different "Program" for residential contractors. I assume it leans toward piece work.
I almost always lose out when I go against one local lower priced union guy. Not sure what his story is. ...... The only job I beat him on was for a homeowner who is Union.
OTOH, I'd sure like to see the Union guys who shingled our local library come back and fix their mistakes. At their cost of course. |
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| Old School: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 7:08 AM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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We are in the carpenters union and we just use the regular scale. Bennies ae the same. I cut my teeth on shingling and any job I work on will be done perfectly. As a rule, you are going to get a better quality worker through the union than off the street. With that said, there are a bunch of "union" workers that could not qualify to polish your shoes.
Nothing is perfect for sure, but the trick is to keep going through the ranks to find the one that works best for you. The beauty of the union system is that at least when yhou get a good one, they are motivated to work because they are geting paid a real wage with benefits to do it. I would want to be paid like that and I am sure most other good workers would too. If you are going to do the quality work, you should be compensated for it. |
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| wywoody: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 7:31 AM | | | | |
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| I am a : roofing survivor |
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When I was a union contractor back in the early 80's, I went through the roofers union and they were in a turf war battling the carpenters union. They wanted me to inform them if I saw any union carpenters doing any roof work other than nailing on battens.
I only had three or four union jobs in a row and didn't want to get involved with their political battles. |
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| Old School: [ RE: Whjy have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Sunday, June 17, 2012 @ 11:51 AM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Way back when, the union roofers all did the flat work and the carpenters did the shingle work. Shingles were the responsibility of the carpenters. Now with the single ply roofs, very little hot is done any more and most of the roofers are long gone. There are no union "roofers" around here any more. We still have the carpenters though. I don't get involved with the politics of it all. Most of our work is building and so it is not an issue. I would not take any crap from anyone personally. I tell them to go pack sand! |
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| jjshaggy: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 10:32 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Old school I'll bite I agree with you 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself. |
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| TomB: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 11:31 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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We always liked prevailing wage jobs....It was always a win-win...The employees got paid more & the employer made more...Today; More than ever in the region I began in where "regular" pay is still $15, (20yrs later) & prev. is now $44 |
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| twill59: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 1:13 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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3 factors I have seen regarding wage stagnation:
#1) The obvious easy one is Exactimate and Ins. Cos. setting the price of roofing. And it is NOT their fault.
Too many willing Con Men can see the benefit of this...
#2) Bennies such as health insurance are not as important to owner or employee. Accumulating stuff is what matters most.
Which segues us into.......
#3) Momma pays the bills. Best business plan for a contractor. Even better than cheating all employment laws OR having an illegal workforce. Marry a teacher or a nurse. Or a woman who has the job with benefits PLUS the pay. Yes, even a Union Job!
20-30 yrs. ago the working man was the backbone of the family unit. Now Momma is happy if Daddy ain't on crack, ain't whoring around and can at least make his Mega Grocery truck payment.
So yeah if the OWNER is happy making $20G's a year, I don't think he is going to fight the good fight for his Employees. He just wants Momma's Gravy Train to stay on the Tracks BABY!!!!!!!!!
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| Vickie the Boss: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 9:36 PM | | | | |
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What's Private Davis - Bacon mean?  Roofing gets in your blood. |
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| Mike H: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 9:51 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Old School Said: Wow, no bites on that one eh? Lets put it this way; We in the carpenters and laborers unions are looking for highly skilled and or trainable workers that are interested in doing quality work in a safe manner with appropriate compensation. This compensation includes medical insurance, retirement benefits, training, and above average wages. (see above) We are also eligible for unemployment benefits when we are off work.
Depending on where you live, the wages may not be that much higher that normal $20-25 dollars per hour, but the added benefits make up the rest of the difference.
You dont see many undocumented workers trying to get into the union. Chances are if you have union workers on your job, they are not illegals, they are not subs they are not 1099ed, they have been trained to work safely, and they will give you 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay. Anything over 8 hours is 1 1/2 time too. We are union and we do EXCELLENT work.
We used to be a union company. My grandad was a union roofer, my dad was union roofer, and at least 2 of my employees have been at one time. The union didn't do shit for us. It didn't help us get work, and it didn't pay our guys squat when they were sitting on the bar stool bragging "I make XX dollars per hour.... Oh, but I only worked 8 hours last week."
When we dropped out, we had just one guy quit. Some have since left for the union and came back. Others went to the union because they couldn't handle our drug program. Those ones have stayed away.
I'm looking for the same kind of guys listed above. I pay a higher than competitive wage for my area. I have good healt insurance that the employee must contribute up to $112/month from his own pay, for a full family coverage. It's $60/mon for a single.
Oh, did I mention, there are no minimum hours worked during the year to qualify for me to carry your insurance through the winter? Haven't seen the union do that one yet.
I have a great 401K plan, and contribut up to 6%/year of employees wages, plus a profit sharing plan.
If employees get the job done under schedule, I pay them 100% of the wages that were allocated for that job.
I provide transportation to the jobsite.
I provide an environment that has won awards, and been nominated for some the most exclusive "all-industry" safety recognitions in the state of Ohio.
NON-UNION
When my dad's Gen. Supt. died from melanoma, even with 23 yr in the union, his widow was denied any benefits.
There's a union member who told his church, "You don't want the company I work for to do this job. Hire Hicks." Someone drove past that job yelling "scabs" for a whole day, the next morning when we showed up, our roof was cut to shreds.
Personally, I don't think the union vs non union thing has squat to do with wages, and the reason the roofers union is in such wretched decline is because they've brought it upon themselves by protecting dead weight, fighting reasonable drug prevention measures, and a host of other BS that makes being a union contractor in any place other than a big city with a large "union only" companies, a virtual impossiblity. Anywhere else, if you want to provide a good place to work, you need to be able to get rid of people that drag the company down.
But that just my opinion, based on my experience, and I don't expect everyone to agree with it.
Far more important than the number of people you know while you are here is the number of people that will miss you when you are gone
www.hicksroofing.com
1-800-750-HICKS |
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| Mike H: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 9:54 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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Vickie the Boss Said: Whats Private Davis - Bacon mean?
Private wages are listed first, Davis-Bacon (The federal prevailing wage rate) is listed second.
Far more important than the number of people you know while you are here is the number of people that will miss you when you are gone
www.hicksroofing.com
1-800-750-HICKS |
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| Mike H: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 10:00 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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I think that "companies" that use subs, and governments that do not enforce the laws differentiating between subs and employees are far more responsible for the low wages of the roofing industry than any other factor. Far more important than the number of people you know while you are here is the number of people that will miss you when you are gone
www.hicksroofing.com
1-800-750-HICKS |
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| TomB: [ RE: Why have wages in the private construction industry stalled over the past 20 yrs? ] , Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 10:29 PM | | | | |
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| I am a : Roofer |
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I agree with you Mike.
BTW; The illegal workforce is the catylist for the wage stagnation. Plain & simple.....At least in my circles/regions.
Vickie; Private sector wages....vs...."Davis-Bacon", (prevailing wage rates set by our gov't for any particualer trade in any specific region).....Used to be, any gov't funded projects where Davis-Bacon mandated...Then it went to federaly funded,,,Now, I believe they find ways around that too.... |
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