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RandyB1986: [ What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 7:45 AM
I am a : Roofer
Well, it has been one of them weeks. Work has been slow here and I finally got a few calls last week for estimates. I was pretty sure I would get a couple of them.....but now I am not so sure I will get any of them.
I bid a small 19 square ranch with 2 layers of tear off with 30 Year O/C. I bid it at $3900 hoping to get it....the guy called me yesterday to let me know he was hiring someone else...I asked him how bad I got beat on the bid and he said by over $500, close to $1000!! How can someone do this job for $3000 or so?? Must be someone just supplementing their unemployment check!!
I hope I dont have to bid against them all summer........
Replies:
GSD: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 8:53 AM
I am a : Fighter
years ago, when I'd post something like this, "they'd" say I didn't know how to sell......
But me being in Michigan, the first state to go into the bad times, I know thats not true. Its a hard fight, looking back, probably not worth it. Probably better to put your time, money and energy into something else. good luck.
Vaa Fakaosifolau: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 11:24 AM
I am a : Membrane Roofer
Thats just plain crazy pricing for that sized roof and incl. tearing off. I wouldn't bother getting out of bed for that.
craftesman: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 3:39 PM
I am a : Roofer
i hope thats not a sign of things to come around here. i would have bid the job at $4700.00 Might have went down to $4500.00 if i needed work bad. i usually get most of the ones i bid on.
copperman: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 5:46 PM
I am a : coppersmith
I'm hitting 40% over my competitors and I'm at 1990 prices. They are working for nothing or they are not paying comp.& insurance. Bid a reflash on a Huge chimney on a slate roof in a valley. very labor intensive with a lot of soldering at $1500.00 and the guys said He's going to price shop.
Old School: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 6:47 PM
I am a : Roofer
Wow copper, without even looking at it I would be at about $3,000.00 and he is going to "shop" it? Wow!
twill59: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 8:17 PM
I am a : Roofer
Yes it is open season. And guess who is NOT the hunter, but the hunted? I don't know if it will be worth even putting gas in my truck this year.
Oh wait, gas is going up. FIRST time in my roofing career that it has me concerned. Prolly 'cause I might not be working. So THIS is how the other half live.....
twill59: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 8:19 PM
I am a : Roofer
copperman Said: Im hitting 40% over my competitors and Im at 1990 prices. They are working for nothing or they are not paying comp.& insurance. Bid a reflash on a Huge chimney on a slate roof in a valley. very labor intensive with a lot of soldering at $1500.00 and the guys said Hes going to price shop.
Obamas stimulous plan should be nothing more than 10000 IRS agents........
twill59: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 9:07 PM
I am a : Roofer
Why is it I go to some BS repair/ service call yesterday and the owner is not sure if I am trustworthy. I humbly mention that we did a repair for the neighbor last year, talk to him. We've been here for 20 yrs! I Drive a truck w/ LADDERS!! I OWN TOOLS!!
Dammit people!!
No wonder Wall St is a casino. People are gambling their own money w/ a simple roof! Like TRG sez--- how many times do you want to pay for this thing??
Chit men, if I am going to work LESS, then I am going to have to charge MORE
minnesotaroofin: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Wednesday, March 10, 2010 @ 11:21 PM
I am a : Roofer
It does definately suck out there -- I am about willing to work for food at this point i will not be turning anything away - a Guy gotta do what a guys gotta do. sorry - If i am gonna get lowballed so be it -- They are hurtin just as bad if not worse. I'll take it all away if thats the game they want to play well see who still gets up the next day for $5.00 a day and some ramen noodles. been ther before do it again cause i know no other way to go - And when the last one gives up i will win and be free to set prices again.
Tough business guys "when the goiing gets tough the tough get going" Every day we let the lowballers take work from us another day they will be a lowballin and the way the economy is now we cannot afford to have them taking all the work even if it is for some noodles at the end of the day.
I have been depressed, disapointed, frustrated and i am now getting ready to kick butt
Old School: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Thursday, March 11, 2010 @ 5:49 PM
I am a : Roofer
Kick away, but at those prices, you might just as well work for someone else!
Alba: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Thursday, March 11, 2010 @ 8:37 PM
I am a : Roofer
That's why the good lord made the insurance companies for .If it weren't for them we would be starving here.We almost never hear back on our estimates from the customers who pay cash.
minnesotaroofin: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Thursday, March 11, 2010 @ 8:55 PM
I am a : Roofer
Just triing to get fired up is all - I would probably find the lowballer and kick his butt vs loosing on the job anyhow - even if were me and a laborer were to do Randys job would'nt be more than $400 to split after materials and permit and stuff for 3 days 2 guys.
But yea i would definately find out who he was and at least call him and let him know what was on my mind. Since it would probably be the only lead i had all week and i would be stewing over it all week until i called and got it off my chest.
OLE Willie: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Friday, March 12, 2010 @ 3:38 AM
I am a : Roofer
This is nothing new guys. Been going on since the beginning of time. I combat this by focusing on the upperscale areas and avoiding the others. I decline to bid on roughly 25% of the leeds that come in due to being out of my service area. The driving time, gas, etc. is too high and the return is too low. I stick to the jobs that are close by and not as price competitive. No this does not entirely eliminate the price wars and i don't think thats even possible no matter what. But being the local company with an excellent reputation and an office in a prime location in the center of the upperscale areas for more than 15 years is a big advantage. I dont try to gouge customers for ridiculous profits and im not a lowballer either. My goal is to be the middle bid. Offering top quality service before, during and after the sale for a "FAIR" price.
GTP1003: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Friday, March 12, 2010 @ 7:02 PM
I am a : Roofer
i have lost jobs over 50 bucks before. i here also live in michigan. there is 1 way i have found a company working and not relying on the phone to ring. unsolicided bids in the mail. hes closing 40% of them but the problem lies in 800 profit. Now when he did 800 of them last year thats pretty good. But thats the only way i figure guys with lack of leads can turn it around. Drive around look at bad roofs, write the address down and do that for a couple of hours now you have 30 some homes that need roofs. if you get 5 of them its worth the drive and stamps. The guy that i know this from is pretty smart. Just thought i would pass it along maybe it will help someone.
Sales guru, Insurance fighter, and marketing pro. Contact me if you are interested in any of what i know. Thanks and God bless
twill59: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Friday, March 12, 2010 @ 7:35 PM
I am a : Roofer
GSD Said: years ago, when Id post something like this, theyd say I didnt know how to sell......
But me being in Michigan, the first state to go into the bad times, I know thats not true. Its a hard fight, looking back, probably not worth it. Probably better to put your time, money and energy into something else. good luck.
Even in the worst of times, you Mich fellas can at least calculate a better price than the IN guys in the best of times...
GKRFG: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Friday, March 12, 2010 @ 10:21 PM
I am a : Roofer
SOS, another year. It's a real challenge to sell work right now. I will be talking to 5 potential customers tommorrow. I want to get four of them, I hope to get three of them, it would be great to get two of them, I better get at least one of them but it really wouldn't surprise me if I didn't get any of them.
Lot of guys working for squat. "Have at it" is all I can say. A lot of desperate roofers that will drop price even before they test the waters. They will fill up with cheap work and stay busy while making no money all year. Eventually things get back to normal. Just got to keep selling. It's the same every year.
twill59: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Saturday, March 13, 2010 @ 6:38 AM
I am a : Roofer
Good advice GAK. I get a baqd aqttitude about having to "re-start" my business every year and fight this same battle every spring.
Here's an example: Yesterday:
Past customer. I've done 3-4 jobs for him. 1 for his dad and MIL.
I offer him blow-in insulation, LM Premium shingle and CT 5 star 50 warranty.
I sez "Ron, w/ what you save in energy costs, this roof will not cost you a dime. In fact if it goes over 40 yrs., you'll make money. You are 52. Last roof ever for you, if CT's #'s are right (not mine). PLUS you have THEIR 50 yr. workmanship warranty for when I am long gone!"
What does he say? "I need to get another estimate!" Fair enough. But then he wants me to separate the insulation/ roofing price.
At that point I decline.
Gawd I hate spring. I'd rather fight the winter weather, work 1/2 the time for twice the money and sit out March.......
RandyB1986: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Sunday, March 14, 2010 @ 9:01 AM
I am a : Roofer
I found out one reason I got beat on the price...I used my suppliers price on O/C shingles instead of the box stores. $80 a square has a hard time pricing against $55 a square, thats 25%+. I was at a disadvantage from the start!
That burns me up......
twill59: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Sunday, March 14, 2010 @ 10:51 AM
I am a : Roofer
And then there are the ShowRoom big box Contractors who will give away the roof so they can damn near give away the siding, windows and doors.
WHat do they make $3 K GP on all of it?
Roofguy: [ RE: What today won't bring....... ] , Sunday, March 14, 2010 @ 11:11 AM
I am a : Roofer
Roll the calendar back about 2 years on this forum - remember a debate raging about lowering prices to get work and how some thought that was last ditch efforts of those who don't know how to sell? I remember it very clearly! It wasn't you guys in Michigan or Minnesota saying that, I know.
I won't mention any names but one of the biggest mockers of those who felt like they sometimes needed to sell price, was somebody who is in a part of the country that is hurting pretty badly right now. I have to wonder if he's changed his mind about bidding work to try to survive?
I think that many of those who survive this cruddy economy will come out of it with a new appreciation for those who operate in regions where price has always been a major consideration for the building owner. Building owners here in the hail/hurricane belt are much more savvy about roofs than those in other parts of the country by virtue of the fact that they have to buy a new roof for every property about every 10 years or so. That tends to foster less loyalty for to the roofer because the building owner isn't thinking in terms of having to live with the same roof/roofer for 20-30 years.
There are exceptions, of course, and I'm not saying there is no loyalty between roofer-building owner here, it's just harder to come by, imo.
